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Sun 11 Dec 2016 | 09:45
Dylan Hartley facing another large ban after knocking out Sean O'Brien

64
Comments

Dylan Hartley faces yet another disciplinary sanction following his latest red card, for knocking out Leinster's Sean O'Brien with a swinging arm. Hartley could see himself banned for a large portion of the Six Nations, and might put his Lions tour in jeopardy.

Hartley came on during Friday night's home defeat by Leinster, and within six minutes he managed to get himself sent straight back off, for a nasty looking challenge that could best be described as reckless, but would probably be more suited to being called a cheapshot. 

"He can have very very few complaints about it," said Brian O'Driscoll in commentary. "That's very reckless.. It's absolutely stupid. I don't know what positive impact you're going to have by swinging recklessly like that."

He also later tweeted that any discussions about O'Brien ducking into it, or Hartley mistiming the challenge, are most probably inaccurate.

England coach Eddie Jones was on hand to witness it, and you could see him cringing in his chair as the red card was shown, no doubt wondering how it is going to impact his Six Nations campaign in a few month's time.

Despite leading England to a fantastic unbeaten 2016, Hartley could see himself missing out on another British & Irish Lions tour, as discipline will be key for Warren Gatland's squad in New Zealand.

Coupled with him potentially missing a lot of the Six Nations, things are not looking good for him, and certainly not in the leadership role that some people had touted him for.

O'Brien left the field for a head injury assesment and did not return.

Hartley faces a disciplinary hearing this week and with his horrendous record - which includes offences such as head butting, gouging, biting, punching and abusing a referee - he can expect a lenghty ban.

World Rugby's latest directives have also clearly stated that the head area is sacrosanct, so he is probably looking at being out of action for eight weeks at the very least.

Leinster went on to win the match 37-10.

credit: rugbyxv

Posted By: Grant Constable

64 Comments

  • rdump0
    9:24 PM 15/12/2016

    Actually, he's been suspended for 7 different infractions...
    If you think about it, Dylan has a mission. He seems to try to get suspended for every possible foul play infraction which exists before career end. However to get a full grand slam of suspensions on Law 10.4, he still has some way to go...

  • oliver
    12:17 PM 15/12/2016

    right! ;-)

  • stroudos
    12:01 PM 15/12/2016

    "I'm saying nothing, but that doesn't mean I'm not thinking it" - right?

    The bit on TV where they cut to Eddie Jones in the stand with his head in his hands is probably the most emotional I've seen him.

  • oliver
    8:57 AM 15/12/2016

    yes, very convenient. Here's some practice for your French:
    je ne dis rien mais j'en pense pas moins......

    Sidenote:
    It'll be difficult for Eddie Jones to choose him again as captain though, after so little game time before the 6N?

  • drg
    12:16 AM 15/12/2016

    Dunno, haven't seen Hartley dive like a prick yet..... but then again, I'm not sure of Pape's disciplinary record..

  • mise
    7:16 PM 14/12/2016

    Thought so - just in time for the big matches....and just before an announcement of a tougher stand from world rugby on head action.

    Here's his roll call of honour...he seems to like taking chunks out of Irish lads in particular

    http://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/sport/here-are-the-details-of-dylan-hartleys-60-weeks-of-suspensions-768612.html

  • stroudos
    5:30 PM 14/12/2016

    Breaking news: Six weeks ban for Hartley!

    Rather convenient timing that he'll be back perfectly in time for the start of the Six Nations. Clearly this is just serendipitous coincidence and anyone who tries to read any more into it than that is clearly a very cynical individual..........

  • im1
    10:37 AM 14/12/2016

    technically Cueto did score.... and here is why...

    In 2007 the TMO only had the remit to adjudicated on grouding of the ball over the try line. when Cueto grounded the ball over the try line he was in the field of play. So, irrespective of whether he was in touch prior ot that point, it didn't matter. So the TMO went outside his remit to disallow it.

    Its similar to the rule now, that if a knock or happens 2 or more phases before a try, it has to be ignored by the TMO.

    I don't think it was a try though, but rules are rules.

  • stroudos
    9:20 AM 14/12/2016

    "A swinging arm is a weak tackle. There isn't enough mass behind the point of contact" - which is why it makes more sense to suggest that the swinging arm was intended to dislodge the ball than to smash the bloke.

  • 10stonenumber10
    11:14 PM 13/12/2016

    We all see things differently. England fans are still saying Cueto scored!

  • 10stonenumber10
    11:11 PM 13/12/2016

    I don't see him look at the ball, he's got his eyes on the shirt number, sets, and dips his head as he swings. The ball was way out in O'Brien's outstretched right arm before he gathered it. But then again, maybe he got 100% on the Hazard Perception part of the driving test and can watch 2 things at once

    Possibly over exuberant and pumped up by seeing the hit a few phases before, he wanted to cause some positive impact confidence damage to the Leinster, Ireland, and the Lions wrecking ball in front of Sir Eddie of Jones

    I'm not saying it is red mist deliberate decapitation, like you said, swinging arms don't cause damage to the torso, but he threw so much into it that the aim wasn't controlled. A swinging arm is a weak tackle. There isn't enough mass behind the point of contact... You see them more often in rucks and mauls when "aggressively binding" (read: rib punch) to the opposition

  • 10stonenumber10
    10:52 PM 13/12/2016

    And so will stepping on someone's foot on the tube accidentally, if they decide to be a d*ck about it

  • rdump0
    8:18 PM 13/12/2016

    Is Pape the french Hartley, or Hartley the english Pape?

  • drg
    4:51 PM 13/12/2016

    *"I was committed" less and less....-_-

  • drg
    4:50 PM 13/12/2016

    Haha, never have shame, I've probably been stepped a couple times by one of your like-minded 10's when I have been in that seek and destroy mode..... Highly embarrassing... Just a shame that referees are accepting "I was committed less and less these days"

  • drg
    4:48 PM 13/12/2016

    HAHAHA!

  • danknapp
    1:16 PM 13/12/2016

    Mate, how many front rowers have you met who didn't have anger management problems?

  • twiggy78
    12:46 PM 13/12/2016

    Simple really; run in swinging your arm like that and you are being reckless. Forget intent, forget outcome.

    DH decided to through his arm into a tackle in a reckless manner, now he has to take his punishment like a big boy.

    Last time I checked, you can still do a lot of legal damage by inserting your shoulder into some other guys ribs/back. SOB was falling backwards into DH, he could have smashed him without the swinging arm.

  • jonnyenglish
    11:45 AM 13/12/2016

    In the immortal words of Alan Partridge: TWAT.

  • 10stonenumber10
    11:41 AM 13/12/2016

    I've no shame in it. 50% of my game was acting as back row bait, draw their attention away from the game plan and into seek & destroy mode. The other 50% was picking up the pieces after overestimating my own abilities. At School the coach would put bounties on my head... "5 points for smashing him off a set piece, 10 if you rip that pink Stade Francais shirt off"

    Maybe i am slightly unhinged. I take more pride in taking a hit than giving one out.... 90% chance of being put 6ft under, but that 10% opportunity to disrespect Newton's Third Law is what I live for.

    More lip than Austin Healey, except without any of his talent

  • lefty49
    10:56 AM 13/12/2016

    and if i tackled someone in the street in a manner completely legal on a rugby field i to would likely be arrested for assault you point is flawed.

  • drg
    9:31 AM 13/12/2016

    Hahaha! He made a bloody lasting impression, I should have bought shares in cous cous companies.....

  • oliver
    8:14 AM 13/12/2016

    Why do I feel a sudden urge to eat couscous at 9 in the morning?!

  • guy
    6:09 AM 13/12/2016

    Ah, NZPhill...sigh. Good memories.

  • pdg
    12:25 AM 13/12/2016

    Its another case of Hartleys self detonation on the field. He now deserves to spend quite a few MONTHS away from the game, and it should be compulsory as part of his ban that he attend anger management courses to get him to understand how to behave on the rugby field as a Professional
    I was dismayed that Eddie Jones gave him the captaincy at the stsrt of his reign. Definitely not England captain material any more, Jones should remove him from the position immediately

  • nubbin
    11:58 PM 12/12/2016

    Look on the bright side - England's scrum will be stronger in 6N for Jamie George replacing Dylan. Just need to persuade Eddie Jones to start Marler and bring on Mako at 50 and we might match Ireland up front....

  • im1
    9:20 PM 12/12/2016

    The beginning of 1.32 he is about to make the hit. SOB is upright

    At 1.42 you can clearly see he is looking at the top of SOBs back. At 1.43 SOB has started to go down but Hartley is fully committed.

    It's a swinging arm. Not (generally) dangerous if it hits the body or arm or ball. If SOB had stayed up it wouldn't have looked bad. I generally think that many players do it all the time to get a bigger tackle in. What Hartley did was wrong and reckless and deserved a red, but let's not distort the evidence by saying he was never looking at the ball or below SOBs head.

  • drg
    9:16 PM 12/12/2016

    Yeh, I was gonna say, 10st10 probably knows more about big hits than anyone on here.... I remember playing as flanker and me and the other flanker relishing the competition against each other on who could reach the fly half first....

  • 10stonenumber10
    7:11 PM 12/12/2016

    At no point during the hit does Hartley look at the ball, or the torso. The angle he is running... the tackle is already happening right in front of him. He tried to join a tackle to double the impact, he would have been better off holding back half a step and getting straight over the ball when he hit the floor. Instead, he swung, and did a very bad job of making it look accidental. He saw Sean O'Brien and wanted to leave a mark on the big man.

    As for the big hits, I have been hit high and hit hard, for obvious reasons, more times than I can remember. I know my enemy to the nth degree

    who are you anyway? It's your fault if you give my biased, warped, and misinformed opinions any value. This is the Internet. Be thankful there is a profanity filter.

  • mise
    6:56 PM 12/12/2016

    And what about Sean O Brien? A guy who should actually travel with the Lions, and probably start - unlike Hartley - is knocked out after struggling with injury for ages. Concussion is not something you want to be experiencing too often.

    All of this poor DH bullshit, he's let himself down, how will this impact the Lions yada yada.

    He hardly ever even starts for Northampton ffs!

    Because of the England and Eddy Jones/Lions factor, expect Hartley back just in time for the important games in the 6N. I hope I'm wrong on this, but I really doubt it.

    The 'tackle' itself, with that horizontal swinging arm? Come on!

    Sean O Brien for the Lions Captaincy :-)

  • drg
    6:02 PM 12/12/2016

    Just to add, I didn't realise that he had knocked out SOB! Is this confirmed? It shouldn't be viewed as an accolade, but I didn't think it was possible KO SOB!

    Just seen BOD's tweet. It was always a red card and Hartley knew it, but I think the question here is more the intent on it, what was Hartley actually trying to do??

  • drg
    5:55 PM 12/12/2016

    I suppose the only person that knows exactly what happened is Dylan, but maybe this was an accident(?!?!)....

    It doesn't look like one, but I suppose you never know...

    Would be interesting if he stood up and said "I just lost my head, sorry"...

  • drg
    5:52 PM 12/12/2016

    I really don't know what to make of this... He really has kept himself out of trouble for such a while and looks far more hinged these days, but this was very strange.

    When I first saw this a couple days ago I wondered what Hartley actually felt he was going to achieve with his actions had it all gone to plan? Perhaps as others have suggested, he was going for the ball or something, but it was certainly a swinging arm movement. I haven't had a sec to see the video here, but Eddie Jones stuck his face in his hand in the one I saw, he definitely looked like it was going to cause him a headache.....

  • machead1
    5:45 PM 12/12/2016

    Your not Stroudos! It was careless/wreckless but he was clearly going to dislodge the ball..

    Rugby is a tough game, people get hit, tackles get mistimed etc etc....

    I wouldn't take any notice of a 10stone flyhallf, pretty sure they know nothing about big hits.....


    And when you say he was looking at his head when you were watching frame by frame, was that looking at his head when he was standing up or on the way down??

  • danknapp
    5:41 PM 12/12/2016

    The writers of the Dylan Hartley show are just running out of ideas next. There is no way a real person would consistently get himself into these hilarious scrapes. Aaaaah, Dylan.

    I wonder if Dylan's latest ban will see a return of 'NZPhill', now he has time on his hands.

  • danknapp
    5:35 PM 12/12/2016

    Given that he has missed a year of playing time out of his eight years as a professional, I think we can give him the benefit of the doubt. Maybe it was during his suspension for headbutting that they covered swinging your arm into the back of an unsuspecting player's head.

  • 10stonenumber10
    5:23 PM 12/12/2016

    Sri Lankan right arm fast bowler. His action is almost horizontal, like a full stretch 85mph tennis forehand

  • jimmy23
    5:02 PM 12/12/2016

    I feel more disappointed than sorry. I thought being given the position of England's captain perhaps gave him the perspective he needed to clean his act up and it seemed as though it had. He's conducted himself brilliantly as captain and then 6 minutes after a perfect run he goes and balls it all up. It's not like he was even provoked either.

  • hornetni
    4:47 PM 12/12/2016

    For anyone saying he has been getting better, Is it just me or are these incidents seeming to happen when he is losing and as he's been winning none stop with England the niggle and dirty hits haven't reappeared recently.

  • guy
    4:11 PM 12/12/2016

    I am a littlebit surprised that I somehow actually managed to feel sorry for Hartley. No idea where that came from and I guess I am the only one.

  • guy
    4:07 PM 12/12/2016

    Deshartleylize...plus 1 for that!

  • cluainoir
    4:01 PM 12/12/2016

    I'd say yes Stroudos, you are the only one who thinks it was an accident. A blatant cheap shot by someone who has a long history of cheap shots behind him. We all played against people like him and fortunately they are generally weeded out eventually. It only take a coach with the balls to kick him to touch and as you see from Eddie Jones reaction, that thought may be going through his head.

  • cluainoir
    3:49 PM 12/12/2016

    If he were French or south sea islander he would probably get a life ban :-0

  • stroudos
    3:42 PM 12/12/2016

    Jolly good, I'll keep my powder dry then...

  • stroudos
    3:41 PM 12/12/2016

    With no clue as to who Lasith "Slinger" Malinga is/was and whether or not it is safe to Google, I'll take your word for it...

  • rugbydump
    3:09 PM 12/12/2016

    Yeah, on the way. #prayforpascal

  • colombes
    3:01 PM 12/12/2016

    Agree, as we can already watch an apologists army organizing itself..

  • 10stonenumber10
    3:00 PM 12/12/2016

    I have watched this a few times... once frame by frame, and in all of them you can see him start to swing with his eyes on O'Brien's head, he isn't looking at the ball. He only throws his arm, not his shoulder, and doesn't get behind the hit. He makes contact at full reach... no excuse there, who wraps 2ft before they hit? From his posture he looks like Lasith "Slinger" Malinga

  • colombes
    2:48 PM 12/12/2016

    Nice attempt to deshartleyze the thread.

    But, as a bigger, older and ginger version of hartley, i would cite him for improper look.

  • im1
    2:42 PM 12/12/2016

    Hartley has had his fair share of practice when it comes to leaving the pitch after a red so he should be good at it!

    I do think Hartley's treatment is a bit unfair when you look at his previous ban's (gouging aside, but then it was against Haskell). The Jamie George headbutt was non-event, If anyone else had bitten Stephen Ferris' finger then there would be alot more emphasis on wtf his finger was doing in Hartley's mouth in the first place. The elbow against Leicester last year could be argued that he was just trying to free himself.

    Finally, the wayne barnes incident, well.... barnes did get the rules wrong on the restart so there was basis on the accusation....

    Also on the 'in the court of law' point. Its also the case the burden of proof required in a criminal court vs a citing procedure is massively different. Criminal court if beyond reasonable doubt where as citing only needs balance of probabilities i.e. more than 50%)

    I imagine there may be some disagreement with all of that though!

  • stroudos
    2:38 PM 12/12/2016

    Speaking of despicable scumbags who should be banned for a lengthy period of time.......

    Has everyone seen Pascal Pape's antics from the weekend??????

    I would post a link, but don't want to steal RD's thunder in case there's a post on it forthcoming(?????)

    Suffice it to say that it is quite possibly the most heinous, contemptible act I've ever witnessed on a rugby pitch.

  • 10stonenumber10
    2:37 PM 12/12/2016

    At least they had the decency to let the other guy know before swinging haymakers. Square up and scuffle, no cheap shots.

    A lot of people head butted Paul O'Connell's fists when he was breaking through onto the big stage. To some, it is thuggery, to others, it is a passionate bloke refusing to take a backwards step. Rugby is like snowboarding, you have to use the edge, and having an unhinged lack of fear certainly helps.

    A red card in the junior world cup put fellow Northampton Nutcase Calum Clark on the map. As did the Ronda Rousey arm snapper. The lack of foresight into consequences, or complete disregard for them is sort of worrying. Ashton too... they all need some conscience correction

  • mellors89
    2:35 PM 12/12/2016

    Some well made points! I have to agree with you!

  • oliver
    2:29 PM 12/12/2016

    Collective reaction of French fans:

    http://giphy.com/gifs/classic-amused-7twIWElrcmnzW

    (guy in the middle!!)

  • stroudos
    2:21 PM 12/12/2016

    What a delightful metaphor. Bravo!

  • stroudos
    2:19 PM 12/12/2016

    Am I the only person who thinks this was an unfortunate accident then?

    If you assume that O'Brien had remained upright, (a fair assumption from where Hartley was standing, in my opinion), I imagine Hartley would have been able to bind onto him - to either contest for the ball or to initiate a maul - and that the "swinging arm" was a reasonably legitimate attempt to disrupt the ball in the process.

    Unfortunately, of course, it didn't work out that way and resulted in a very ugly challenge leading to a bloke being knocked out. In light of the recent World Rugby directive re contact with the heid, a red card was the only sanction realistically available to Rowan Atkinson, I mean Jerome Garces.

    In my naive and blinkered view of the world, the red card is sufficient. It was the correct decision, therefore no further action is required. But I don't have a bloody clue about the citing and disciplinary process and I suspect that's not even an option these days.

    However, I will make one point, regarding the "It's Dylan Hartley - a recidivist and a compulsive twat - therefore they should throw the book at him" argument. In a court of law (in the UK at least), the jury is prohibited from knowing - where practical - anything about the defendant's previous record, allowing them to judge that case on its own merits without bias or prejudice. Well that's the theory anyway. Only after a guilty verdict do they get into the previous and then it absolutely should influence the sentence.

    If Hartley is found guilty of a deliberate cheap shot here, then yes make an example of him, but I do hope that they view all the footage and conduct the hearing without any preconceived notion of "oh yes, it's him, yeah he's known for this sort of thing".

    Final point from me - much as I admire BOD, his tweet is wrong. Hartley's reaction - "not a murmur of complaint" - simply means that he respects rugby values, a key one being when you're sent off you leave the pitch without complaint.

  • colombes
    2:17 PM 12/12/2016

    It's not internet, nor the RFU who will judge him, but the EPCR.

  • hawthornnick
    1:50 PM 12/12/2016

    Completely agree with the red for this, swinging arm into the head completely deserves it. As BOD says in his tweet he knows it is coming, but I disagree with the sentiments of BOD on this one slightly.

    It is not a pretty looking thing, but I believe he was trying to dislodge the ball from O'Brien at the same time as hitting him hard. If you watch it again, the height of his arm is level with the ball before O'Brien begins to fall. However, O'Brien is being tackled and therefore Hartley's hit his head rather than the ball. The issue I have with it is why make the hit/tackle at all, O'Brien is being tackled and dropping towards the floor - it just isn't needed. That coupled with the end result and you can understand the red and the lengthy ban Hartley will get.

    The main issue he now has is the repeated bans for swearing at the ref, dangerous tackles etc....means he is a marked man even more than before. He'll almost certainly be out of the early weeks of the 6N at a minimum now. Let's see how Farrell and the rest of the VC's step up in his absence!

  • 10stonenumber10
    1:47 PM 12/12/2016

    If I went and blindside swinging arm'd someone in a rave, on the street or in the pub... i'd be arrested, roughed up, and tagged with a curfew

  • 10stonenumber10
    1:30 PM 12/12/2016

    They should have a 3 strikes and out clause.


    3 bans within 2 years... whether they be days, weeks, or months... should incur an automatic year suspension on the 4th offence pending mitigating circumstances.

    Nothing mitigating here though. Just a big bloke who should know better acting completely within character.

    England need an abrasive edge. He was that edge. Now he's gone and cut himself....

  • stroudos
    1:27 PM 12/12/2016

    Don't be silly Monsieur Noir. Unless I missed the memo, Hartley is not French, so why on earth would he be punished any more than is necessary? ;)

  • kissmeimirish
    12:37 PM 12/12/2016

    He seemed to be getting much better and actually being a leader, it's as if he doesnt want to go on a Lions tour. Never actually liked him, Brian sums it up pretty well, "stupid"

  • jimmy23
    12:30 PM 12/12/2016

    Oh Dylan, you absolute plonker. It was all going so well!

    Before I play the devils advocate I just want to point out that I do agree with the red card. Even if there was solid proof it wasn't intentional, it was still incredibly reckless.

    Now, on one hand. O'Brien falls just as Dylan starts his challenge and I can't help but think that if O'Brien had stayed up right, would this be as controversial as it is?

    But on the other hand, it's Dylan Hartley. If it was anyone else I think we'd all be saying it was just a silly challenge and as much as I don't want to think this, it's not unreasonable to suggest that he knew exactly was he was doing.

    I wonder who will be the new England captain now?

  • cluainoir
    12:17 PM 12/12/2016

    How this person can be considered for a captaincy role in ANY team is beyond me. With his history of cheap and cowardly shots, I can only hope that the RFU makes an example of him and slaps him with the maximum ban that is available. The game does not need thugs like this.

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