England claimed a 21-16 victory over Wales thanks to a late try by Elliot Daly, edging them ahead in what was a thoroughly entertaining battle in Cardiff. Wales were leading with five minutes left but a missed touch finder led to a well taken try, and ultimately a home loss for the hosts.
England will host Italy next, while Wales travel to Murrayfield to take on Scotland.
oh right. Well, like you said last time: hate it when you're right!!
There is also a law about 'materiality' - if a breach of a law doesn't affect the outcome of the game, it is ignored. It's why we allow wonky lineouts when the defending team don't even compete in the air. Due to the defender choosing the wrong man the 'obstruction' was immaterial.
Great try. I swore like made at the time, of course.
well the rule (or law, whatever) just says one should not be in front of the ball carrier and that's obviously what happened here.
Or maybe there's another unwritten brand new directive World Rugby has "undercommunicated" about?
I'm with Dan (I'm afraid).... The defender was not blocked from making the tackle... If the dummy runner was running parallel and in the same direction as the try scorer then it would have been blocking but I'd say that welsh dummy runner was heading for the gap between the two english players (yellow boots and socks down player).... The England player chose the wrong bloke and his outside man stayed on Johnathon Davies....
It was well worked and I don't personally have a problem with it, however I think case by case basis is definitely needed for these types of tries...
"running for 30 meters and sliding on your knees for a further 10 meters like we see in football all the time"
Best way to not see this in football is to not watch football...
Maybe it is a bit excessive to do it every single time for years on end but there are far more obnoxious celebrations being done out there. I'd rather this subtle hand gesture which is in support for a good cause than running for 30 meters and sliding on your knees for a further 10 meters like we see in football all the time.
The defender had a choice about which man to hit, and chose the wrong one. They were running at diagonals. I'm more than happy to see that try stand.
Screen grab of the Welsh dummy run. More of an obstruction run if you ask me though! Just obvious when you see it like that.
https://postimg.org/image/5z6r0zc6z/
exactly. I'll post a screen grab just to prove it wait.....
OK, makes sense.
Wot iz u mad abt dan m8?
Up urs.
The point isn't that he can't tackle, it's that he doesn't work his arse off to get into positions to change the game while defending.
Dan, I think you'll find you meant "we're not allowed to be pedants".
I wouldn't pick Roko ahead of Nowell, who would be one of the first names on the team sheet for me, for the reasons you highlighted. But I always thought Roko's decence was pretty solid. The only times I've seen him in an England shirt, he kept Savea quiet all game v NZ, which is some achievement in itself, and then the same with Nadolo v Fiji. Yeah I know Nadolo scored but I would be surprised if anyone else would have had any luck in the same situation. Anyway, I'm happy with all the wing options England have available at the moment.
Nowell's sorted his out now, (http://totalflanker.blogspot.co.uk/2017/01/rip-jack-nowells-barnet.html?m=1)
Marler's barnet remains a disgrace.
I used to complain about shit haircuts for a laugh, but as I'm getting older I find I genuinely mean it...
Well, I reckon the cause is right. But doing systematically on every penalties/conversions for years is IMO excessive. It dilutes the message and ends up looking out of place on a rugby field.
I hate to be a dick and do this on a public forum, but I would hardly call it; "Stupid antics"
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/health/10700490/Salute-by-England-hero-says-were-battling-for-Jacks-life.html
Yes, I do. The tv always seemed to try and cut it while he was doing it.
Sorry, i meant where's nigel walker?
"Highlight of the game: Farrell seems to have gotten rid of his stupid antics after kicking a penalty."
Are you talking about the hand sign he does?
Love that.
Don't tell me we're not allowed to pedants now. I'll never come back.
There was an excellent opportunity to see why Jones values Nowell and not Roko during the last Exeter v Bath match. Roko was immense in attack, absolutely top class, but in defence he was jogging to get back into the line. Nowell was busting his lungs throughout the match and made a couple of crucial tackles.
Jones wants wingers who are going to do the work in attack and defence, and Roko has been told that, so I imagine Jones will have been more than a little frustrated to see Roko doing it time after time. I don't think we'll ever see him play regularly for England unless that mindset changes, and all the time he wastes between then and now just gives a young gun a chance to play the Eddie Jones way and put his hand up for contention.
I think Roko will go the same way as Cipriani - a great player who looks awesome on highlight reels - and will have a similar [lack of] history for England.
You sound like a right old git moaning about people's haircuts.... I'm not being funny, but you have seen Jack Nowell's and Joe Marlers haircuts haven't you? I have heard a peep about those?
Oh come on, it was a beautifully crafted try. I think there was sufficient distance between the players, if Farrell had read the angle at which Liam Williams came (and left Scott Williams to his 3rd row) nothing would have stopped him from making the tackle.
However I'm less sure about Daly's positioning on Youngs' try. He doesn't seem to be really part of the ruck - he's just standing there - but he was most definitely blocking Cuthbert. That's more of an obstruction that the Williams try imho.
Cracking game nonetheless! And I was happy not to have a dog in this fight, seen how tense it was.
I don't think Roko's finishing is in question, he's just not as good an all round player as Nowell, Daly or Watson imo. I think he's unlucky to be behind May though.
Eli Walker is the Welsh Varndell or Wade.
Yeah, very possible. Apologies for the pedantry, by the way.
Exhibit A for the case in favour of bringing Rokoduguni in:
http://www.rugbyonslaught.com/2017/02/watch-9-out-of-10-of-rokodugunis-tries.html
Video title: 9 out of 10 of Rokoduguni's tries this season have been insane finishes - well worth a watch.
Good work Colombes, I can't let it go.
I'm sure we've all felt that shitting-yourself sensation when taking an impact like that on the side of the knee. Fear of a busted knee is what made him react so badly, as he explained - very calmly and respectfully - to the ref. Very handled by the referee I must say.
The more important take-out from that clip is how much less of a tit Tom Wood looked with a normal haircut.
Quite right DrG. You really can't beat the understated jog back to your own 22 for a stylish celebration.
Reminds me of Billy Birmingham, as "Richie Benaud", on The Twelfth Man - remember that? Well, I think the High Five is just some silly bullshit brought into the game by the West Indians and it really has no place in the game. And when it comes to congratulating a team-mate, you can't beat an old-fashioned Australian hug, bit of a kiss on the cheek, a grope of the arse or a dry root.
There were hot discussions after the 2nd Ireland-NZ.
I have to agree re: the cynical play card.... It seems to have been forgotten in many many situations. I can't say exactly where I recall it should be used in the last few games, but I feel as though there have been a lot of games (Autumn internationals included) where I have felt that it should have been shown but alas, it was not...
Strong nerves by England. I am very impressed by Eddie Jones who seems to never ever doubt during the games. That must have some influence on the players.
Highlight of the game: Farrell seems to have gotten rid of his stupid antics after kicking a penalty.
For the sake of the argument: I feel like England should have binned twice with the obvious infringements in the red zone. Has the old 'cynical play' card been forgotten?
if Eli Walker is the solution, the problem must be pretty big
good point..... But Moriarty Snr was playing for Wales rugby league when Farrell Snr was playing for England rugby league. I just can't find anywhere that proves they played in a test against each other (possible 1995 world cup semi). They must have played club rugby against each other and there is even the possibility of one of Moriarty Snrs 2 GB caps being with Farrell Snr
Regarding that Scott Williams dummy run try thing, did anyone else think "wtf is going on?" when all the bloody Welsh subs in their high vis tops came diving in as if it was a Grand Slam winning try to take the lead after the clock had gone red???
This sort of brings me back to a post I made (where I subsequently won the internet) regarding Joost scoring a cracking try and just getting back to the half way line... I don't mind a high five, quick hug from the nearest team mates who helped you score that try, or whatever, but that pile of man love over the try line for a try that; in the end, didn't even win them the match, made me want "dry heave" (in the words of Farrell!)
Missed a bit re Daly. I think he's earned the right to be selected in one of his best positions, which from my observation are 15 and 13. Against Italy I'd like to see him in both.
Thanks mate.
I would start Daly at 13 and move him to 15 for the second half. A tall order asking him to play two new (for England) positions, when he's only been picked on the wing so far? Yes, but I reckon he's up to it, he is that good a player in my opinion. But I would make the change at half time to eliminate confusion.
Watson starts at full back, I've seen him put in some cracking performances there for Bath. Only just back from injury so just give him a half. Why risk any more.
Te'o replaces Daly then at 13. Get it done at half time so we can see Te'o over a whole half.
Nowell at wing is one of the first names on the sheet for me. The other wing, well I would get Rokoduguni in, but bizarrely he's not even in the squad is he? We know what May can do, so maybe have a look at Yarde, I don't mind really.
Daly brings so much to the team and has the pace to justify the wing position even if Watson returns to full fitness and form. And the two passes from Ford and Farrell to set Daly on his way for the try were just perfectly executed. You can tell they know each other's game inside out, so I don't think there can be a better partnership.
Ha! This is brilliant. Ross Moriarty's post-match interview (parody). Warning: contains swearing and strange accents.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=EvhHGPCo6X4&
Farrell not making a fuss
Yep, it's rare and must be noticed ;) #troll #couscous
https://youtu.be/nwN9PkCpskA
Would be a fascinating sub-text, but Anthony Farrell is not related to Owen. As far as I know anyway.
Watched the game in a pub packed with kilts in Paris.
Their constant moaning towards the english was amusing to listen.
Back to the match, both teams managed the most physical game of this 2017 start, Moriarty, AWJ and Launchbury as award winners.
Got to appreciate England who achieve to accelerate the game when needed and to transform every welsh mistakes.
Feel for Jonathan Davies, never truly rated Cuthbert on the wing, where's elie walker?
Bloody Dan gave the game away!! ????
Oh. I guess I did bite, didn't I?
I reckon it was that Italian dude dumping him on his arse last week........
Agree he was awesome. If I were the Wales coach and was looking to make some changes around the hour mark, Moriarty wouldn't even have entered my head as an option. Even if I had 15 replacements, I'd have probably kept him on. But what do I know?
Yes, I recall AWJ writhing about on the ground holding his arm/shoulder for a bit. Not like our Owen. And he's a second row...
You are of course absolutely correct about the blatant obstruction for the Wales try, and doubly correct that - in the elite level at least - this is almost never penalised nowadays. (I can guarantee that if I tried this sort of nonsense in one of my games, the ref would still be pissing himself laughing after the resulting penalty kick had been booted into touch). Anyway, I'm glad someone else pointed that out because I think England fans are not allowed to, are we?
Now, before I get accused of being a one-eyed troll, (an accusation that I'd probably have to take on the chin, to be fair), I think Jack Nowell - who was awesome throughout - should have been penalised after tidying up Biggar's chip-through, for getting up and playing after Biggar had clearly tackled him. Can't think of them now, but I'm pretty sure I noticed 3 or 4 other refereeing calls that could be argued the other way. I think those two were probably the most significant and I'm fairly confident they and any others evened themselves out over the course of the game. Generally, I think Monsieur Garces managed the game very well indeed.
on the Welsh try, as much as I would have liked to have seen it disallowed, I think the timing was about as perfect as possible.
If you pause the video at 2.34 and 2.35 you can see that when L Williams caught the ball he was outside S Williams, so he never ran behind S Williams with the ball, which is generally the way that obstruction is assessed in this situation.
perhaps something happened in this match between the two Moriaty and Farrell fathers?
http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/rugby-league-davies-inspires-wales-recovery-1571199.html#r3z-addoor
I'm a more subtle troll than Dan, that's all... ;)
Ok I gotta be quick here!
So first, awesome game, I watched a replay on sunday morning and was glad I did.
Second, I agree, Farrell seems to have matured. Will he end his career in France now and become adored like Wilko in Toulon ?! Lord knows we all used to hate him when he crucified us with his kicks.........
Third, Lawes picked up a Wesh player at the 57th minute and dropped him to the ground, on his head/shoulder. Alun Wyn Jones I think. No idea why it was not penalised?
Finally, of course as a Frenchman I wanted Wales to end England's winning streak but why was their try allowed ?? Scott Williams steps right between the english defender and the try-scorer. Why was that not ruled a screen ? These infractions are never called these days, and I don't understand why.
won't bite this time!! ha!
anyways IMO timing was the same as the Plisson hit, but did you see the difference in appraisal by Stroudos? we all have our blinders....
If Oliver thinks Lawes' tackle was late, I imagine he'll be along in a minute to let us know how long a ban he thinks Moriarty will get...
*troll troll troll*
I don't know what happened to Moriarty as a child, but that chap was exorcising his demons on Saturday. He was absolutely immense. He could easily have been MOTM after only 60 minutes, he was that influential. Nobody could have done more to typify defiance in the face of the English invader. Awesome.
Re: Moriarty hit on Farrell.... one word, beautiful....
I mean, had it been a bit earlier it would have been even better, but as it was, technique wise, it was fantastic... and for a back row, it is one of those wonderful moments when you actually feel weightless as the momentum goes totally your way and into the opposition player as you bury him into the ground....
I'm also really glad that Farrell, both teams, the referee or the touch judges didn't make a meal out of it, was it a penalty or ignored completely? I can't remember, either way I'd say well played to all.
The concern I really have with Farrell, is that he is running the risk of turning into quite a likeable person... (as far as an on pitch character), his post match chat was humble, smiley and really down to earth, his actions on the pitch weren't smug, he looked totally focused... in fact he looked like he was having fun...
Wales must be upset at the loss, they had it all in the bag. I have to say though, they still didn't excite me all that much... This infatuation with a big winger is holding them back I think, North has been wobbly for an age (I'm aware he wasn't playing) and Cuthbert just seems poor....
I'd be interested to see how this weighs in on the Lions. You'd have to say a 10-12 combo of Ford and Farrell is probably a must.... but I guess that would mean Biggar and Davies wouldn't be in...so that isn't going to happen..
agree - good analysis
expanding on JJ/Brown situation - Watson will be back for the next game. As its against Italy, EJ can mix it up as much as he wants. Who would you start 11,13,14,15 for that game (and the Scotland game, if it went well/badly)?
Launchbury well deserved man-of-the-match, the bloke was tireless. Daly was a pretty close second though, in my opinion. That try-saver on the line was awesome, probably more impressive that the try, which was an excellent finish against an opposite man defending poorly. Daly's defence and Nowell's were extraordinary - there were quite a few moments where I think it's fair to say Wales would almost definitely have scored against any other defending wings. Daly's attitude has been exemplary - he's not a wing but that's where he's been offered his chance and he's absolutely nailing it; the unfortunate red card is a distant memory already. Personally I hope he gets more of a chance at either full-back or outside centre - not to be too critical but I feel Browny and Joseph could benefit from some real competition for their places. Either way, Daly has to be involved.
On the 10-12 axis, can anyone honestly say there's a combo they'd rather have seen fielding that shit kick by JD2 at the end? My two penn'orth: Farrell is England's best option at 12 currently and Ford is about par or very close behind him for 10. And the combination is clearly working! Would like to see some other arrangement trialled at some point against Italy, so they have options for future reference, but other than that I see no reason to change.
Yep. Farrell's reaction to that tackle was one of the highlights of the game for me. We've debated on here the validity of cynically smashing the opposition 10 (or indeed 12) - personally I'm all for it within reason, but at least when Lawes does it he does at least try to make it look like he's only a fraction late. Moriarty might as well have waited for the next ruck to form and then smashed Farrell. A delightful rib-tickler of a hit though. I think Farrell not making any fuss over it and getting right back into the game undeterred delivers a massive psychological boost for the team. Good captaincy!
What. A. Game. Both teams improved significantly from last week.
Passion, intensity, high levels of skill and I thought the ref managed the game very well!
Think my heart rate has finally returned to normal, my Fitbit was registering a 107 by the time Daly scored his try.
Ross Moriarty was my pick of the Welsh players and I'm not sure why he was subbed off, was thankful though! His hit on Farrell was late but was glad to see Farrell not make a meal of it. Sucked it up, had a cheeky grin and dry-retch, then got on with it.
I reckon it's been a cracking 6 Nations so far. Lets hope the next 3 rounds live up to the same standard.