England are Six Nations and Triple Crown champions following their 25-21 victory over Wales at Twickenham on Saturday. Following Scotland's win over France, they now need to win in Paris next weekend to pick up their first Grand Slam since 2003.
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If I called you a white bastards whilst being white myself, is that racist?
It's the intent joined to the word which makes it racist. So if he'd said gypsy to refer to someone who called themselves a gypsy, and didn't mean it in a negative way, it wouldn't be racist.
So me calling Anton Ferdinand black is a statement. Terry calling him a 'black bastard' is racist. Same word, different intent.
And no Jimmy, it didn't sound like you were defending him, don't worry about it :)
"It wouldn't be as bad to call someone 'Frenchie boy', in my opinion, because there isn't the same history of prejudice and persecution."
I guess you haven't followed any of the French rugby judicial outcomes then Dan?
Joking aside, what if he'd said Pikey? offensive? Or as above, traveller boy? It's more descriptive no?
Hahaha, I suppose there could be tiered tries?...
A) A clear obvious breakaway try with great grounding could be awarded 5 points. B) A try where it requires a TMO view can get 4 points.
C) A front row carrying the ball over the line in any fashion is automatically awarded 3 points. Unless ofcourse they satisfy objective A), in which case automatic beer and pie shall also be awarded as well as the full 5 points.
Fair enough. I hope it doesn't sound like I was defending him too much, I'm not overly aware of the history of prejudice when it comes to Gypsies. Marler has never come across as someone who is truly nasty but as you say, ignorance is no excuse.
It would be pretty similar to John Terry calling Ferdinand a 'black bastard'. If you're including someone's ethnic group as a basis for insulting them, then to me it's racism. Add to that the fact that discrimination of travelling communities has been a consistent theme in Europe for hundreds of years (something like 90% of the world's gypsy population died in the gas chambers), then I think it's fair to say that Marler's comments were at best offensive and ignorant.
It wouldn't be as bad to call someone 'Frenchie boy', in my opinion, because there isn't the same history of prejudice and persecution.
I'd have no problem whatsoever with him getting a decent ban for this. Rugby should take a stand and say that any sort of abuse based on someone's ethnic group will not be tolerated.
It was a pretty silly thing to say really, though I don't know to what degree how offensive it is. I suppose it would be the equivalent of someone going up to Itoje and calling him 'Black boy'. Not something you should say, but is it just as bad as calling him the N-word?
My guess is he wanted to try and wind Samson Lee up (something that happens all the time on a rugby field) but perhaps went a bit too far with it. The fact that he went and apologises almost straight after makes me think that he realised that, but he still needs to be held accountable.
there you go again, having a go at us cake eaters. is there a citing panel on rugbydump?
I'm also interested to see the incidents such as the eye gouge and the Marler strike (for which he has been cited)...
I'd say Joe Marler is due a little sit down on the naughty step right about now.
The guy is a great player and a funny bloke, but I feel his little quips - late tackle because of World cup frustration, or digs about referees boots etc etc have perhaps increased his chances of pushing boundaries or trying to...
For the record, what do people think about the comment he made to Lee "Gypsy boy"... I've read travelling community reps are outraged... Of course the real answer is for him to just keep his gob shut altogether, but what if he'd said "Traveller boy"... would that have caused outrage? Would calling Peter Stringer a little leprechaun land someone in a world of trouble? As I said, staying quiet is maybe the best bet, but it'd be interesting to know where the lines are...
or you could just keep things friendly and do what Jerry Flannery did: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0pxOBZBnCoA
beer and pies would be nice incentive, but you are assuming that a tv camera would be able to see daylight between arm, belly and ball. they all merge together in reality!
Sempere will be interested too.... (he received a 15 weeks with absolutely zero evidence)
In my opinion as a neutral that was a straight red.
Anyways....cracking game! England will be very tough to beat next week. But I'll keep my hopes up!
So you're telling me a lifetime supply of beer and pies wouldn't entice you to jiggle a roll out the way to get an edge on the ground? If you can it for pies, you can do it for tries...
I bet Chris Ashton will be interested too!
Touch judge gave the final play I think, much as I am a fan of Mr Joubert! Agreed North was still in play when he released the ball (it did take several replays to verify this). But Webb was covered by both Care outside and Daly inside, both of whom stopped with the whistle.
Scrum penalties are complete lottery, as there are generally four props cheating at each scrum, with different penalties each. Then there are loose-forwards not binding, scrum halves in front of the ball, hookers popping up, etc.
It's not worth complaining about crooked feeds, as I don't think I've seen one of them for years for any professional outfit.
The fact that you referred to the English scrum half as George Ford, said Craig Joubert is on hallucinogenic drugs and automatically assumed that Wales would have scored a match winning try says all that we need to know about how one-eyed you'd be in any discussion involving the game. Move on sunshine.
I'm very interested to see what happens with the Francis citing. To my eye, the TMO completely bottled the decision. Either it was a eye-gouge, and it's a red card. Or it was accidental, and you do nothing. Splitting the difference and awarding a penalty to England seemed patently wrong.
I tend to think it was accidental - at full speed, he's definitely not looking at Cole's head when he makes contact - but it was a weird thing he was doing with his hand...
Anyway, whoever reviews this is going to have to say the TMO made a mistake. He had a perfectly good angle to make a decision, and he opted not to.
you are essentially saying us fatties can't score tries? how many forwards run through enough space to dot the ball down with one hand? it rarely happens. you are suggesting that unless a fatty is dexterous enough during a maul, drive round the fringe or running through a defensive line to move the ball from a secure position under their arm in close contact to put their hands over the top of the ball and dot down, they cant score?
if you are over the line and in control of the ball, it's a try :-)
No chat about Craig Joubert getting those first three England penalties wrong to give England what should have been a comfy nine-point cushion? Or George Ford consistently putting into the second row? Or Dan Cole boring in? And then those subsequent scrum penalties being awarded bafflingly to England.
My suspicion during the game was that Craig Joubert must have been taking hallucinogenic drugs. He certainly saw a different touchline to the rest of us during George North's offload to Rhys Webb for what would have been a match-winning try.
As a rugby fan, Itoje was a pleasure to watch! He did not look like a young lad finding his feet, he looked like a bloke that was out there to be a leading contender of that shirt right now!
I actually thought the Cole no try was a fair call... it really looked to me like the ball never touched the turf and the only thing blocking it was Coles arm...
Reality is if you call that a try, then a player should be allowed to slide over the line on his back holding the ball into his tummy and that still be a try because he himself was the only reason the ball wasn't grounded.... which brings us into the lines of American Football...
I hear you there Jimmy. I had to have a long sit down afterwards!
Itoje does look like a fantastic find. But his partner in crime, Mr Kruis, is having a very good championship too and shouldn't be overlooked. England do seem to have an embarrassment of riches in the 2nd row. Now where can we find an openside...
I wondered that at the time (re. BY no-try). But so many players slide in to collect a loose ball that it would have been a brave call, something for which Mr Joubert is not exactly renowned (and probably wrong in any case, as there was another Welsh player there challenging). So I would call it as a pretty good defensive play from Evans, if a little towards the edge of what is deemed legal (which is where all good rugby players should be - right?).
I think Cole was rightly penalised with a yellow for lying on and making no attempt to roll away, in fact doing precisely the opposite. He's made quite an art-form of it over the years. Tomas Francis appeared to me to come in almost as the ref blew his whistle. So I think it should have had no bearing on the initial yellow card decision.
Francis will probably get a long ban for what followed. There is no place for that.
Marler appears to be getting his comeuppance for some pretty rubbish and low sh*t-stirring with the comments to Samson Lee and a daft elbow to Rob Evans, as I hear he's been cited.
I thought AWJ got away with one at about 57-58 minutes (just after Ford's ill-thought-out run from his own 22) - frustrated boot to the head of a cheating Haskell, after he sealed off the ball.
Sad to see and hear so many obvious citeable (is that a word?) events in what was otherwise a good test match, with a proper edge-of-the-seat finish.
If you can play like you did in the final 7 minutes for the majority of a game, I don't see why you can't grab a victory down in NZ. Especially on the first game as they'll be a bit rusty.
Christ on a bike, trust England to be 25-7 up with 7 minutes left and then proceed to give me heart palpitations! Fair play to Wales for refusing to give up.
What a find Itoje is. 21 years old, 3 caps and already looks like a seasoned veteran.
I wondered if the Ben Youngs no-try should have actually been a penalty try? You can see it well on the short highlights video at 20 seconds - Rob Evans slides in with his feet, which impedes Youngs before he had a chance to ground the ball. thought the Cole try should have been awarded as well. Which brings us to the last 20 minutes - poor substitutions and disrupting a settled defensive pattern exposed England again (will we learn?) but this was partly brought on by having Cole in the bin and wales undeservedly having 15 on the pitch
on a technical point, if Cole was deemed to have given away a penalty whilst injured, could the yellow be reversed?
We've gotta go to New Zealand with this rubbish. Send prayers our way.