England completed a perfect year with a 37-21 victory over the Wallabies at Twickenham, taking them to 14 wins from 14 matches, equalling their record for successive victories. England now take a break ahead of a Six Nations opener against France on 4 February, also at home.
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credit: rugbyxv
Not the proudest wank I've ever had, but yes.
I never thought I would champion physicality over squiggliness of running lines, but in this instance, Yarde only has about 5kg over May (almost nothing for someone 90-100kg), but the difference in power is ludicrous. Same with Mike Brown, he can have 2 players hanging off his neck, but he always makes at least 3 strides before hitting the floor.
I have said it before, it isn't the dog in the fight, but the fight in the dog. May is an incredible club player, but only the hungriest make it to the top.
England's wingers may be in the top 10 in the world, but none are top 5.
Yarde has the grit, defence, and size necessary to get involved. He offers everything May does going forwards, but unlike May he can hold it up before going to ground. In a game of seconds and centimetres, that extra bit of time and contact intelligence means quicker ball for the next phase of play.
Throwing a stick into the mix... Yarde and Daly on the Wings, Brown at 15, swapping in and out like the French back 3? England have 6.5s, why not 14.5s?
That we do.
His hit on Plisson is basically porn.
I'm still not 100% convinced on May... What are your views on Yarde?
I see. We agree then.
I agree. I personally believe that international duty should take priority over all. New Zealand seem to have that attitude and it it works well for them.
That's quite a trend int he game due to referees and citing mob being so heavy handed with such minor things. Nathan Sharpe claimed he was butted by a south african... erm... can't think of any more, but there are ones...
At first, I thought he was pointing to his nose and complaining about the smell of garlic as Huget went in for the kiss. ;)
That Huget though, what a thug. There should be no place in the game for trying to kiss an opponent. Not during the match anyway.
Hats off to Nige - can't think of any way he could have dealt with this situation better.
Brown claiming a headbutt for a mere touch....that's it!! he's got a reputation!!
sorry....couldn't resist it!
That laugh at the end XD
Nigel always has the last word
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uNbH4gqxPVY
Yeah I get that and can see where you're coming from. In my mind, if you're committed to the tackle, actually make the tackle, don't dip the shoulder, just make the goddamn tackle. Then we wouldn't be having this debate and he wouldn't have gotten a yellow!
Its a bit odd to suggest that the citing process and referring is biased based on comments made on place like rugbydump. I'm not sure how much attention the powers that be pay to these forums. If you are suggesting a bias towards English speaking teams then there are examples where non English teams have got away with it. In the hooper/sanchez incident, surely sanchez should have been binned for pulling hooper back. What about Huget not getting cited for his horrendous stamp pre world cup? Both examples of non-English speaking players getting off lightly.
I fear we might all be getting a tad too civilized and reasonable here...
But I suspect that'll all change when the next France-England game rolls around ha!
Cheers guys
Don't agree that it was a cheap shot, he was committed to the tackle. Penalty for the late tackle would have been sufficient in my view.
But I definitely agree that when shown a yellow card you should jog off without protest.
Oliver, it's a fair cop. Here's what I said on the Sanchez incident:
"I agree that it was a bit of a cheap shot by Cooper, but not that bad and Sanchez most definitely milked it. The milking was really just to draw the ref's attention to the incident."
So in the interest of consistency I suppose I'd have to say Brown milked this one a bit too. Being more familiar with Brown I find that hard to believe, so maybe I ought to retract the comment about Sanchez instead. (As you say, it's easy to accuse someone of play-acting from the comfort of a computer/phone).
I did think at the time the (Haylet-Petty) yellow card was harsh. Not just harsh, but incorrect in my view. "But I was already committed Sir" is nearly always a legitimate defence in my book.
Fair enough. I haven't really seen Sanchez play out of the international game so I was mostly relying on what the post said.
If you look closely, you'll see that HP shoulder makes contact underneath Brown's armpit. Boom. Straight in the ribs. If you're not braced for it, that shit hurts! I really don't think Brown was faking it here.
I would add that Australia really missed Genia. Phipps shows a few flashes but really was abused in this game; top notch by Youngs.
I wrote big reply earlier about the yellow, but deleted it as Dan has said it better here. Slow motion makes this look way worse. At full speed, it's simply a tackle that HP pulled out of, which is why his arms weren't in it (a person naturally braces for impact with the shoulder). I would venture that if HP had gone full out and tackled Brown as if he had the ball, nothing comes off this at all.
HP hardly closed Brown down... he stood still and braced himself and Brown ran into him....
...I don't have an issue with standing your ground... and if someone is silly enough to run into you then they better expect you to be braced...
Oliver, there is a difference to complete simulation and part simulation...
Yeh, he got hit on the back of the head by Hooper, no arguments there... but if someone had run up to him on the street, done that, then punched him mum in the face, would he have rolled around on the floor, or would he have got right back up and fought back?
He exaggerated the effect of the hit... so did he exaggerate the effect of the cooper hit as well? From the angle shown, I cannot judge whether his face hit Coopers shoulder.. I'd suspect it did, but I'm not 100% sure it was with the force he showed as he fell to the ground.
Sorry again, but Sanchez does not have a reputation. The only incident that was brought up to support that claim is that thing with Hooper, where he received a solid strike to the back of the head.
Honestly, when I see the comments on english-speaking sites, I understand why the citing/reffing is so biased.
Oliver is right..... receives 2 week ban...
But to be fair Ol, I reread my comment, I was pretty ok with the yellow, as far as that is what the game calls for these days.
I did say that I couldn't see the contact to Sanchezs' face, but if it was there, then fair enough for going down.
However, the video doesn't show his face hitting Coopers shoulder (in as much as it doesn't show it NOT hitting his shoulder), so the sort of hand on cheek as he crashes to the ground, is often used in a lot of simulations... so I'm not surprised people were suspicious...
oh ok. This "out-of-window" test business seems kind of strange.
Bah, Oliver, I hate it when you're right.
I agree with you on inverdale, he is a bit odd.... But I do agree with him that Australia has the ability to win... We saw it clearly in the first half, England were not firing well, Aussie scrum undid them, Aussie pressure produced some points, but clearly they didn't capitalise on the pressure enough, and didn't sustain it either...
Maybe he was speaking rubbish but it wasn't totally outrageous...
Enjoyable game, just hope Mr Brown has recovered from that monstrous late hit from the huge (95kg) Mr Haylett-Petty.
Get well soon Mike
I would say, as it says in the post you're referring to, it's because Sanchez has a reputation for it. Brown doesn't, he's a bit of a lunatic who doesn't shy away from the rough stuff.
Sorry Dan, but no.
I finally remembered the incident I was thinking of .Remember this?
http://www.rugbydump.com/2016/09/5358/quade-cooper-sinbinned-for-off-the-ball-shoulder-on-nicolas-sanchez
Pretty much exact same situation. Late, no arms tackle. And several commentators said the Argentinean player should have received a yellow for diving! How come no one said that about Brown?
On the Book of Face Rugbydump asked if this England team would beat New Zealand?
8 out of 10 times, we'd lose. They're that good and the gap is significant. Yes, we have potential, but as Eddie Jones has said, we don't have many world class players.
Inverdale is a mug. He's an entertaining mug, but he's still that slightly irritating uncle-in-law you avoid at parties. You know the one, he wants to talk about 'birds' and how great it is to be 'lads', in particular 'bachelors', because 'nobody pins Johnny-boy down'.
If Courtney Lawes had put it that hit we'd all be sat here, nursing erections, going on about how marvellous he was to close him down that quickly etc etc. Never a yellow. They should watch foul play in real time only, no slow motion. Slow motion only to work out where on someone's body they've made contact, but they base their judgement on full speed clips.
I wouldn't have given the try, based on the angle we saw most of. I don't think he could have argued if it hadn't been given.
When we've picked up on incidents in the past when someone has faked it, in our opinion, it is usually in cases where someone claims they've hit their face when, in fact, they haven't. I don't think he milked it, for what it's worth.
I think that questions was from Inverdale, who generally speaks a load of tosh, after 4 in a row I think you have to look beyond luck.
Eddie said that Hughes was so nervous in the warmup he couldn't catch a ball, like you say he grew well into the game. Impressed me when he released the ball after a tackle, allowing him to pick it up and keep going - Not many people do that and get pinged
I think the contest overall was very close. An interviewer said to Cheika how although Aus lost all 4, they could have potentially won all 4 (I'm not sure how close or true that is but it's a nice sentiment) I think it goes to show how close the competition actually is. I think England did very well to come back, but they were lucky not to get slaughtered in the first half. The first half scoreline definitely flattered them.. that being said, it's a game of rugby, games can be won or lost by a simple bounce, so England took the small opportunities given to them and Australia didn't take all the opportunities England gifted to them.
I thought Englands depth seems quite good. I still don't rate Yarde, or May... but then maybe I don't see enough of them play. Englands new 8 looked v shaky to start with, brilliant tackle by Hooper on him - smashed! But he seemed to come into his own as the game went on, so I guess it's a confidence thing.
Australia can take a lot away from the game in the sense that they very nearly stuffed England, almost a few things to iron out and they'll be looked very tidy!
I retract my previous comments about May.
But then again, maybe the opinions were necessary. Every time he has a shaky moment, he comes back firing on all cylinders. Definitely one of the better games he has played, might lack a bit of bosh, but in the words of Rhys Ifans/Nigel Gruff... he's "Wiry".
Jones called Youngs fat and slow at the end of 2015. Now he is sharper than Care. This set of players can take criticism and move forwards, which is possibly why Ashton and Cipriani are not involved. They have both matured as players, but they have the potential to disrupt.
The coaches have got it right. Realise the potential of the player, instead of trying to mould them into the competition.
England were crap when they tried to play a SBW/Nonu role in midfield. They were even worse when they tried to play 2 7s like Australia. England churns out 6.5s like nobody's business (Moody, Robshaw, Wood, Haskell etc.). They may not snaffle the ball as well as out and out 7s, but they can kill momentum, do the heavy work, and cover all back row positions adequately. Teamwork rather than individual poaching, and when they get an opportunity to use their size advantage, they smash the likes of Hooper and Pocock backwards.
I think Brown did as much as he could to exaggerate the hit... HP dipped the shoulder - which personally I don't have an issue with... he stood his ground and Brown ran into him. This to me is the essence of drawing a player... don't draw a player - ship then ball then be surprised if you get smashed..
I think the yellow for HP was BS as well...
To clarify: I'm not saying Brown milked it (that's far too easy to say from behind a screen).
Just pointing out that in similar situations, players from other nationalities (French and Argentinean mostly....) were accused of faking. Which seemed outrageous to me.
Also, yes, it would have been a different game with Genia. Which begs the question: why wasn't he there? He did play the game against France, so ?
Too right about scrum-halves being the difference here - was a much closer game than the scoreline suggests. I think had Genia been available and some of the 50/50 calls gone the other way then Australia might have pinched it (but only just). Phipps is just not up to international standard, thought he was poor in the summer tests and this game.
Not sure about Brown milking it, although you could have point. I'd probably have been writhing around but suspect Brown is made of harder stuff.
Didn't watch this game, but Australia seemed unlucky to lose this one. Karma as they were lucky vs France and Scotland.
No surprise to see England becoming a strong unit since 1 year. A new manager with a new spirit, a big bench depth and fine kickers. Will see if they can keep this mojo or if they didn't peak too soon, the world cup is in 3 years.
6 nations will be enjoyable to watch between England and Ireland leadership.
Scotland achieving fine performances, France is coming back strongly but they clearly aim 2019 than this winter, Wales are the unknown equation, and Italy can may snatch 1 victory or 2 with O'Shea.
I'm convinced as well, but the problem with that is that he has to 'catch' it before it hits the floor. Touching it with his right hand doesn't count as catching.
"A knock-on occurs when a player loses possession of the ball and it goes forward, or when a player hits the ball forward with the hand or arm, or when the ball hits the hand or arm and goes forward, and the ball touches the ground or another player before the original player can catch it."
The left hand, I'm not sure if it did remain in contact. However, I'm convinced that his right hand did make contact with the ball JUST before hitting the deck.
Forgot to mention the honorable Michael Cheika who predictably:
- blamed the referee
- blamed England's conservative style of play
To be honest I'm actually fairly OK with yellow cards for being stupid, especially if it stamps out cheap shots like this is. It didn't need doing and it put his team under pressure. What pisses me off more is the complete indignation he's showing at getting it. Suck it up, say "sorry sir" and walk off, don't be a petulant child about being shown to the naughty step.
If there's anything I like more than England winning, it's Australia losing, so when these two things combine I become a very happy chappy.
That said, even as the most one-eyed England supporter ever, I think HP got that card for being stupid more than anything else, didn't seem like a yellow, even I thought it was harsh! More than that though I can admit England got the rub of the green on this occasion. and you know what, that's OK. Everyone gets it occasionally and whilst the boys from Down Under may feel hard done by this time, that's how everyone feels when it goes against them.
What I was really impressed with was the way England came back out in the 2nd half and really stepped it up. We can afford to slip against Aus when we play like we did in the 2nd half. However, we need a full match at that to even stand toe to toe with NZ, not even beat them!
Yeah I agree no card, HP braces for impact, and brown relaxes. I do think it was a bit of a shot because he dips the shoulder. Stupid from HP more than anything.
Didn't think Brown was making a meal of it, maybe you're right
The angle that the TMO was looking at seemed to show his hand staying on the ball. But i assume you're there is another angle out there which shows otherwise. I've honestly not seen that angle
I know i'm being slightly churlish here, but has anyone managed to find highlights with Australian commentary?
As others have mentioned already there were some contentious decisions, so can only imagine they were howling...delicious
Marlon Yarde's try..... is anyone else not convinced that his left hand stayed in contact with the ball? It looked like there was a clear gap between his hand and the ball after he first touched it. So how could the TMO come to the conclusion he did?
Firstly: HOOORRRAAAAYYYYY!!!!
Secondly: Even thought I think the most staunch England fan will admit that we did get the rub of the green at times (Dane Haylett-Petty should not have gotten a yellow card, penalty at most), to recover the way we did after the torrid first half I think is a testament to the mental fortitude that Jones has instilled into the side.
However if we ever want to beat NZ, we can't afford starts like that. You just know they would have somehow scored all those tries. Anyways, roll on the 6 Nations. With the recent improvements of France, Scotland and Ireland I predict it'll be a cracker.