Thu 1 Sep 2016 | 10:22

Further discussion and angles on Owen Franks' finger in eye of Wallaby

65 Comments

• pete

  12:19 PM 07/09/2016

  Direct quote from me earlier above "Never said Franks shouldn't face a ban"
  
  So your point about "Uzb vs Kaz" is irrelevant...
  
  Even though Douglas himself said there was no case to answer, my point is the systemic hating on AB's in here and how we are the ONLY team who fouls or have the refs in our pocket is border line
  
  I've shown examples other nations doing the same, BOD bagging our entire nation and still the channelled blinding distain towards the AB. Just like everyone hating on our haka even though every pacific nation does one and no one cares when they do it. i mean i get it, my dates weren't an exact match so it's 'totally different' when they do it...
  
  but there's just too much conspiracy theorists and tall poppy syndrome going on in here for my blood.
  
  So peace out and don't forget to breath!
• pete

  11:40 AM 07/09/2016

  Oh and cracking down is one thing but pretty sure an eye gouge has ALWAYS been illegal (if guilty)... so your request was simply a ridiculous attempt to limit my options to suit your own argument.
  
  But hey, keep hating on the AB's if it makes you feel better.
• drg

  11:22 AM 07/09/2016

  As Oliver said 'recent'. However on those points: "McCaw didn't want to say much about it to detract from the game"...
  
  If someone attempted to gouge him purposely, then he should have said something about it, people in amateur rugby have been blinded by gouging and it's disgusting!
  
  I think a lot of kiwis are missing the point. In some respects there is an air of "AB's get away with murder".. you're correct in your assessment of the 2011 playing to the whistle, but again, your dark shades have tarnished your view of the whole thing - people are less talking about "those naughty AB's" because everyone who has ever played the game have tried to get away with anything they can (myself included), but talking MORE about the abysmal refereeing. Was the referee just plain crap? Or was he in fear of being the referee that penalised the AB's to a loss in their home RWC?
  
  Then this incident with Franks... turn it on it's head, if this was a game between Uzbekistan and Kazakhstan and that happened, do you not think that maybe a small sanction should have probably been in order? Or perhaps if Franks was playing for Australia and this was done to an AB?
  
  It's again nothing to do with the AB's, it's again focusing on how the laws are applied TO the AB's, which on many occasions, do not appear to be all that strict....
  
  To reiterate, this is not the AB's fault, people don't like their players banned, however, common sense SHOULD prevail within the officials and you'd have thought that the pundits should have had a bit more integrity and gumption to stay silent or to say something along the lines of "yeh, hands flail about and he caught his eye, it probably looks worse than it was, but he was lucky to get off with no ban" rather than the drivel of "get over it"...
  
  I know if this was done to an AB, the pundits would sing a different tune...
• vladimir

  10:59 AM 07/09/2016

  'unlike franks'? So typical.
  Again, AB never, I say NEVER, get banned for such incident. You will find many french, samoan, etc. who get regularly and harshly penalised without clear or any evidence. That's the issue: consistency.
  Of course, you will always find things referees and commissions missed in every game for every team. But there still remains a HUGE discrepancy (not to say bias) in how nations get sanctionned.
• pete

  10:58 AM 07/09/2016

  Oh sorry it doesn't happen every week and don't watch every game worldwide, is there a specific time of day you would prefer?
• oliver

  9:54 AM 07/09/2016

  mmmh no, I said recent. Twice. The authorities have been cracking down hard on gouging in the last 2 years I'd say? See Sempere, Ashton, Galarza bans etc.
• pete

  9:21 AM 07/09/2016

  McCaw didn't want to say much about it to detract from the game but here you go, no punishment followed.... fingers clearly hooked, unlike franks
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-FQkwYfqDnU
  
  or
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cS_Qi586rtE
  more like Franks except the head snaps back.
  
  but as it wasn't AB doing it, no one card.
• oliver

  8:54 AM 07/09/2016

  Please name an incident where two players gang up in an off-the-ball assault, injure the opposing player who has to leave the field and escape punishment?
  
  Or a recent case of eye gouging without punishment?? All recent incidents have ended with at least a 10 weeks ban.
• oliver

  8:51 AM 07/09/2016

  so now it's name calling and racist cliches? well I guess we see your true nature now.
  
  And coming from a lawyer and sometime ref. Just beautiful!
• pete

  4:00 AM 07/09/2016

  Back on a computer so hopefully fewer typo's.
  
  'Deserve' is hugely subjective as is the view we avoided giving away penalties, perhaps we just know how to 'play to the whistle' as is usually taught.
  
  Anyhow, here is part of an article written today to save me some trouble;
  
  At the time of writing this article we are nine days past the second Bledisloe Cup test of the year.
  
  The All Blacks have won the first two games comfortably and have locked the Bledisloe Cup away safely for another year.
  Sadly, however, an incident early in the second test involving Owen Franks is still getting traction in the media.
  
  Unsurprisingly, some Northern Hemisphere journalists quickly attacked the All Blacks for being thugs and they also took aim at the referees for having one set of rules for the All Blacks and another for everyone else.
  Former captain of both Ireland and the British and Irish Lions, Brian O'Driscoll, engaged in a Twitter war and had tweeted that Kiwis had nothing else to be happy about other than the All Blacks, although that tweet was quickly deleted.
  Our not-so-favourite Welshman, journalist Stephen Jones, has also been on the attack. This guy, in particular, relies on inflammatory comments in order to garner clickbait, thus inciting further anti-All Blacks sentiment, rather than actually using anything intelligent to get his points across.
  Predictably, he compared the Franks incident to the spear tackle on O'Driscoll in the first test of the 2005 Lions tour to NZ, by saying that in both instances NZ players escaped punishment for blatant acts of foul play.
  That spear tackle wasn't a good look for the All Blacks and it was bad that Tana Umaga and Keven Mealamu escaped any punishment for it, but they are not the only players from any nation to escape punishment for such offences.
  
  The deleted BOD tweet perhaps demonstrates why his 'integrity' does not always shine through in NZ's eyes! seems like he may not perhaps be impartial when assessing AB foul play!
• drg

  6:42 PM 06/09/2016

  2011*
  
  Ok, deserve is a strong word. France had an abysmal rwc yet made it to the final, some might say that despite their shoddy performance the fact they had the ability and heart to make it to the final meant they "DESERVE" the win..
  
  NZ had a great competition until the final, some might say they "DESERVE" the win...
  
  I'm talking more about the inconsistencies with refereeing and how I believe given a referee who penalised both sides for the same things, France would have won that match. I don't think NZ were gifted any penalties, I just think they managed to avoid giving away a lot of blatant penalties...
  
  Also, one thing I feel I have picked up on watching NZ games, is the lack of early cards. Either the players know the laws very well and feel that a different penalty in the red zone each time isn't something that can be yellow carded... for instance "holding on" ref warns them, next time they don't release the ball carrier so ref warns them, next time there are hands in the ruck ref warns them... etc.. it seems that other teams would be carded before that point...
• vladimir

  4:58 PM 06/09/2016

  Especially if a former AB in french team is cited! Say Nonu in Toulon.
• pete

  3:47 PM 06/09/2016

  You had me in agreement until 2012 WC. France lost 2 pool games and would have been the worst performing winner had they been successful.
  
  with all respect it was only the fortune of other results that allowed them to even progress to the later rounds.
  
  The AB's however beat top tier teams losing our full string of 5/8's in the process... and had to call in Stephen Donald off his fishing trip (who was 5th and last choice).
  
  The game was won with a single long range penalty, so can't say we were handed penalties all game.
  
  You may think the odd call went our way on the day but I'm sure I could find a few million kiwis who think it didn't other WC's...
  
  Saying we 'didn't deserve it' as if were fact rather than opinion is pretty bold!
• drg

  2:07 PM 06/09/2016

  See this is where I agree with you Pete. I find the tales of conspiracy amusing, however you see deeper thoughts rearing their heads in other forms.
  
  You see it in many walks of life where your immediate thoughts are good natured, however there is a deeper rooted thought which is unknown to yourself. What I'm suggesting is you see the French players being punished to great lengths for foul play, perhaps this is a deeper rooted stem of seeing some particularly dark stuff coming out of French D2 back in the day, so players are banned more harshly. Pacific islanders are another bunch who have had their troubles with discipline, therefore their punishments seem to be greater than others in like for like situations.
  
  So what I'd suggest is that the AB's have got off lightly on a few occasions (as have some other 'top' teams), this unfortunate incident will just go down as another one to harp on about.
  
  The other side of things is the AB's are outstanding, and I hate to bring up the past, but they did not deserve their RWC victory back in 2011. They DID however deserve it in 2015!! But that final was abysmally refereed and France were dealt a very harsh deal. So again, people refer to things like that as their datums, so as mentioned, next victory, failure or whatever, will be reflected on the past 'escapes'...
  
  It's the same with all teams and players... reputations stick unfortunately...
• pete

  1:31 PM 06/09/2016

  Fair enough DrG... perhaps it was JK who started, I just read it so often.
  
  I didn't say we never said where have we got away with stuff but I'm sure we have as have many others.
  
  To suggest there is some sort of conspiracy in iur favour is in my mind crazy. I think if anything people would be happy to see as lose... Judging by many reactions on here.
• artifiction

  1:16 PM 06/09/2016

  Nacho, I am very sorry that I offended you. If it makes you feel any better, I made the assumption that you were from Mexico based on a few different things:
  
  1) Named after the national dish of Mexico
  
  2) Must be on copious amounts of cartel-supplied drugs re: believing that Brian O'Driscoll is a legend of the game
  
  3) Rugby knowledge limited to that of football nations and/or third world countries
  
  I see now that I have erred. Taco Bell does have a large global reach, as do the drug cartels and FIFA. You really could be from anywhere. Please accept my sincere apologies.
  
  Oh, and where's the fun in being objective. Or adult. This is the internet, Nacho. We all have enough of that rubbish in our lives. Isn't this what rugby is for? A bit of escapism?
• pete

  1:00 PM 06/09/2016

  wow.. The head coach used a contentious incident that could have changed the outcome of a WC to keep his job.... Staggering. Hardly the same as the rugby public telling AB to get over it while dragging out older material in the same sentence.
• artifiction

  12:32 PM 06/09/2016

  Nacho, my refried friend; I think we can all agree that the King had vision, as Stirling Mortlock will attest to. As for Jonny and Jonah, who could argue. All legends. O'Driscoll, unfortunately, spent his career surrounded by mediocre team mates, and so looked a hell of a lot better than he was. If Conrad Smith had been playing for Ireland instead, hell, they would have made him Taoiseach. As it stands, Brian will be remembered alongside such great names as Kevin Maggs and Alan Quinlan, and rightly so, too
• artifiction

  12:15 PM 06/09/2016

  You know, I'm doing everything I can to satisfy your need for humour Ollie, I don't feel like I'm being adequately recognised for it :/
  
  The doc has made it clear what he thinks on EVERY OTHER THREAD ON THE PAGE, you imbecile.
  
  It just so happens that when he was taking the piss, he finally added something marginally intelligent to the conversation; something you and your delicious Mexican friend have yet to accomplish.
• vladimir

  11:39 AM 06/09/2016

  In case, u still argue with it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=we2PF5ykYy4
• vladimir

  11:37 AM 06/09/2016

  And obviously they did not get over it. Even Graham Henry used it as an argument to stay as coach and to build his campaign for the next WC.
  Otherwise
• pete

  11:15 AM 06/09/2016

  Excuse typo's done on my phone.
  
  A
• drg

  11:12 AM 06/09/2016

  Veji, it's already passed, there has been no ban and this will go down in history as another awful call - like many from many different nations..
  
  I've said somewhere that even a 1 week ban, or a warning would have shown recognition of a bad incident however unintentional. But 0 recognition and extremely defensive comments from pundits and coaches is damaging to the game and sets precedents on how laws should and will be applied.
• drg

  11:10 AM 06/09/2016

  Pete, perhaps you've read something I haven't, so if you can inform me of something I missed I'd be happy to look at this incident with a fresher view, but you mention:
  
  "Just don't think it's right to use that incident against the current group of men when no one is even left from that era. You can't tarnish every AB team moving for 'that tackle'."
  
  From where I am standing - or sitting, it was Kirwan who brought that up, was it not? Seems to me that BOD just merely commented that it was a farce that there has been no punishment...
  
  If Kiwis wish to ask "when have AB's ever got away with outrageous stuff?" then of course, people will highlight THAT incident, then the Hore ridiculous punch, then of course this incident, but you asked the question, don't get upset with the answer. But the reality is, 99% of the people stayed on topic regarding THIS incident alone, it was Kirwan that stirred up a shit storm by very cleverly swinging the argument to be about a different topic altogether.. "THAT BOD TACKLE"..... lets face it, the world accepts that Umaga et al cannot and will not be punished for it, it's a travesty that they weren't, but no one expects retribution on AB 2016 for it... however, consistency in Rugby 2016 -> onwards would be nice.... this should have been banned and I think BOD was highlighting a big incident in a world class rugby game.... I personally don't see why his integrity should be questioned for his highlighting...
• pete

  11:07 AM 06/09/2016

  Exactly Vladimir... AB supporters were told repeatedly to 'get over it' when mosning about the forward back in 2007. So by that very logic is it not time to move on from BOD incident in 2005???
  
  Fair enough to be upset in its fresh and raw but to paint hold a national team to ransom over an event that happened over a decade ago... Is prett counter productive.
  
  The AB inside centre was 11 years old when it happened. Perhaps we should burn him at the steak through association.
• vladimir

  10:09 AM 06/09/2016

  About AB's arrogance, I would just advise you to read the comments on youtube below the second video ('Wallabies seeing red over eye gouge claims'). You may say, that it is just some morons, well the same bs is spread under every other video related to the AB on the internet, even casuel ones. Just check it out.
  
  'Get over it'. Was it the AB who kept complaining about the 2007 forward pass, for years and years, even to the point where they thought it would justify the refereing of the 2011 final?
  Sorry, if you do not like it, but the AB do complain a lot, i mean a lot, when they feel they do not get the royal 'respect' they deserve.
• oliver

  8:05 AM 06/09/2016

  oh man.....so you did not realize Dr G was taking the piss here???
  
  this is getting better and better. please do go on!
• pete

  3:05 AM 06/09/2016

  Never said Franks shouldn't face a ban or BOD shoukdnt feel aggrieved... Just don't think it's right to use that incident against the current group of men when no one is even left from that era.
  
  You can't tarnish every AB team moving for 'that tackle'.
  
  That's not disrespecting a great player but rather protecting the integrity of young men coming through.
• artifiction

  12:25 AM 06/09/2016

  Fair enough Benny, I guess I'm doing the same thing as BOD if I keep bringing up matters of the past.
• artifiction

  12:22 AM 06/09/2016

  Good to see some common sense around here, DrG. I'll listen to BOD if the discussion centres around the nuances of midfield play, but I think I'll listen to the rugby judiciary when it comes to matters of discipline.
  
  There has been a worrying trend in rugby laws for a while regarding intent. As a lawyer who has spent a fair bit of time refereeing and playing rugby, I see a rise in strict liability (ie no need to prove intent) as fairly worrying development, at least in regards to foul play. Just watch Franks' face when he realises where his hand is - it's pretty clear to me that he did not intend it to be there, and whilst Franks is a great prop, I doubt that he has the acting ability to pull that off. Sure, criticise Franks for being clumsy and over-zealous; but accusing him of eye gouging is a real affront to logic and justice.
• vladimir

  10:54 PM 05/09/2016

  Brilliant! Had a good laugh reading!
• vladimir

  10:34 PM 05/09/2016

  Almost nobody has realized but this video makes the case even worse, because the close-up is NOT a replay of the first action: it is a SECOND attempt at the player's face.
  Just have a look at how he gets to the face: in the first, he comes from over the player's arm, whereas in the second he comes from under.
• drg

  4:30 PM 05/09/2016

  Unfortunately the internet gives everyone a vote. Regarding an England win = a world cup win, that is quite typical in the UK media - which as most rugby players will know is full of ****.
  
  I totally agree with you where you say did he move his thumb when he realised, I'd go further to say that it was probably entirely accidental... I would turn it on it's head somewhat and say, I do however think Franks was making an effort to grab a face, however I doubt his intentions were to poke an eye....
  
  Regarding the sanction that SHOULD be put in place, it's been made clear that contact with an eye is no longer a serious offence. You have to look at this methodically, lets say Franks was 100% innocent of intent, it is still a hard undeniable fact that his thumb hit the Aussie in the eye.... that is something that has in the past been the clinching point for bans - hand in the eye area... it doesn't get more eye area than a thumb in the eye.
  
  The arrogance is not for the wins, you've had sensational wins, but problem occurs in the fact people don't want to be told to focus on the good points when a player has massively avoided a sanction due to foul play... so when pundits spit BS about how it's not a big deal and that people should focus on the good parts, the world goes nuts.
  
  You, nor I, nor the pundits should be the one to tell us whether it's a big deal or not, that is the job for the law books. In this latest incident and the handling, we're being shown one of two options:
  1) Law books are wrong and therefore outdated and need updating.
  2) Someone, for some reason, is unable to see the facts before them.
  
  So is SANZAR outdated? Did someone get a penny in their pocket? Are the laws wrong?
  
  Most RD fans in this recent section don't seem to have an issue with kiwis, they have an issue with the handling of this incident - if you as a kiwi agree with the handling, then it's guilty by association...
• drg

  4:19 PM 05/09/2016

  I'm totally with you Artifiction, BOD doesn't have a leg to stand on in the world rugby stage, also what exactly is he whinging about, it's a poke in the eye by a big unit of a player who clearly didn't mean to..
  
  I mean in world rugby there is a massive amount of common sense to be taken, if a player says he didn't mean to do something, why shouldn't we believe him, he's a world class player for the best team in the world, yet that doesn't seem to count for anything in anyones eyes... Owen Franks got to where he was by being the best in the best team in the world. He didn't get to where he was being a vegan cous cous eater did he!!!
  
  Bunch of pansies, we play hard in the SH, we don't play cous cous eating like you northern fools.
• drg

  4:12 PM 05/09/2016

  Hardly.... regardless of whether BOD feels aggrieved about "that tackle", his point is still 100% valid, it's a farcical decision, so to bring up some BS about him being upset about the past and that's what he is basing his judgement on is not only as pathetic as being upset if people feel the BOD situation was handled badly, but it's also disrespectful to a great rugby player. I'd expect it to come from a fan floating around on youtube, but from some top rugby names in NZ is unbelievably pathetic, one eyed and embarrassing,...
• benny

  3:45 PM 05/09/2016

  I was with you until you brought up the rainbow warrior. Some things are best left unsaid
• artifiction

  1:59 PM 05/09/2016

  Pretty amusing from where I'm typing, Oliver. All you northerners in this comment section certainly get very uptight about our beautiful game, don't you! You'll enjoy it far more if you sit back, relax and enjoy the fireworks.
  
  PS you know something else that's funny?? That your apparent country, France, is the only nation to have committed terrorism in New Zealand. You frogs are the last group I'll ever have lecturing me about arrogance.
• oliver

  1:22 PM 05/09/2016

  regarding arrogance, I meant in the rugby world. Just look at the comments here and you'll see I wasn't talking about my opinion.
  
  Anyways, if that was humour, well I take it all back! It's just that I thought humour was supposed to be funny.....
• pete

  1:21 PM 05/09/2016

  if we are still talking about it 10 to 15 years later then yes, feel free to to say "get over it".
• pete

  1:14 PM 05/09/2016

  Does it look bad... Yes
  Did he move away his thumb once he realised.. I think so.
  
  But to say we get away with stuff is a bit far fetched, i've seen McCaw hammered game after game but rather than that was a foul.. i read he's cheat and deserves it.
  
  Yeah i think the BOD thing was awful at the time but surely a statute of limitations should apply to this kind of incident being brought up every time and AB borders on foul play? Countries have fought wars and moved on faster than this event.
  
  As for AB's/fans being arrogant, turn it up.
  We had some pretty decent wins over the Aussies (if i'm allowed to say that) and as far as i can see on RD next to nothing in the way gloating. Where you go back on here and see a good win from England (sorry just the first example that came to mind) and they start talking up winning the world cup.
• artifiction

  12:37 PM 05/09/2016

  Oliver, Oliver... where's your sense of humour?? Forgive me for thinking that the rest of the world could be part of the sort of banter we share with the Aussies!
  
  PS Unfortunately regarding your comment about arrogance, you will be disappointed to know that the general population of earth either are unaware of us, think that we are some variety of elf, or generally have a pretty decent opinion of us, as far as I can tell from my travels... people like you on the RD comment section might have a pretty bloody high opinion of yourself (taking it on yourself to speak for "people"), but rest assured that your opinions of the inhabitants of our fair isles mean diddly squat in the real world! Kia Kaha
• oliver

  9:39 AM 05/09/2016

  And you Kiwis wonder why people think you're arrogant....
  do you even listen to yourselves?
  
  I swear each commenter is worse than the previous one. By the way it's a good thing you included "fiction" in your username.
• artifiction

  7:47 AM 05/09/2016

  Getting tipped over and out of the Lions tour in 2005 was probably one of best things to happen to Brian O'Driscoll's career; not only did he become an instant martyr, assuring his place in the 'what-if's of rugby history (we would have won that tour if Brian was playing!!!...), but will also be getting media coin to throw his two cents in every time there is a foul play incident involving a New Zealander from here on out. If Tana and co. hadn't decided to play javelin with him, Brian would have been completely outplayed by Carter, Mauger and Umaga, and have ended up in the footnotes of rugby history. Instead, British rugby get their own Suzi the waitress, and we get a perennial whinger; though, to be fair, if I have to listen to someone whinge, I am glad it is in such a delightful Irish accent.
• danknapp

  5:36 PM 04/09/2016

  You mean, 'git over ut'.
• drg

  2:35 PM 04/09/2016

  Well, it obviously seems like we're flogging a dead horse with this incident....
  
  Now I'm more interested in the next incident where a kiwi is a victim and some amusing commentary comes out using the words "get over it"...
• benny

  12:37 AM 04/09/2016

  Jean de Villiers to tackled Rene Ranger and got a one game ban, the same as Thorn. Piutau was tackled in the air last year and no one was carded at all, and btw there are clear guidelines about when in the air is penalty, yc or rc.
• breakaway

  12:44 AM 03/09/2016

  I wasn't referring to other pundits commenting on this sort of incident, just to punditry BS in general. There's always a bit of it about. Anyway, I've made my point, moving on.
• danknapp

  4:51 PM 02/09/2016

  Ok, what sort of a monster can dislike BOD? I shall henceforth ignore all further comments from you. Good day, sir!
• danknapp

  4:49 PM 02/09/2016

  Standing in Legoland, bored out of my mind as my feral kids destroy the play area, and I check RD on my phone. Just properly laughed out loud and now a group of nearby parents think I'm absolutely mental.
• drg

  4:24 PM 02/09/2016

  Precisely, the game has gone the direction of "player safety regardless" which I'm less fond of in how it can interrupt the game and especially when cards are dished out when there was clearly no intent and no injury arising... However, it wasn't my choice and it is the way the powers that be wanted it, so the only way forward is being consistent...
  
  As you said, victim didn't seem all that bothered, but there is a reason that these laws are applied, it's to take out that element of "I didn't think" and introduce an element of "think of every aspect"....
• benny

  2:09 PM 02/09/2016

  Here's the game. We expect a full report back in 80 minutes!
  
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6OmCiByWFvw
• drg

  1:33 PM 02/09/2016

  If you could find the game, you could watch it and find the minute and seconds that it happened and someone else would probably do the digging for you :)
• drg

  1:32 PM 02/09/2016

  I don't know about that... I find that the NH based pundits are normally the ones that say things like "he was pretty lucky" or some other sort of non apology apology, I'm not asking Kirwan to out Franks and demand he be punished, but rather than doing a watered down sort of - it probably looks worse than it was but he was lucky not to be caught kind of 'shy' response, he actually goes on the offensive and calls out other world greats and actively denies there was any wrong doing in the eyes of the law....
  
  I only saw a couple comments from unregistered folk on the other page about the incident whos eemed to somewhat fall into the Franks sympathisers or naysayers category, I wouldn't say that AB fans on a whole are arrogant or nasty, however my point what that there seems to be very little noise around the incident from anyone official - and rightly so I suppose the AB fans are staying fairly quiet on a whole about it...
  
  Again, I personally don't see a lot of denial from kiwis about this incident, however NZ as a group would probably find themselves with a more supportive world wide community if someone 'top' came and condemned this incident as reckless at least...
• benny

  1:03 PM 02/09/2016

  I recall two eye gouges on McCaw that went unpunished, both worse than the Franks one - Rougerie and McLaughlin. In terms of extra men on the field, SA fielded an extra man vs NZ two years ago after scrums went uncontested and they illegally replaced their prop. Hore was banned. He sat out a game v England and three pre season games, which is a scam but we've seen exactly the same thing when the Aussies have sat our club games in the middle of SR or the RC, clubs they've not pitched up for for years. Any other examples of protection?
  
  For the record, I think it's ridic that Franks wasn't cited. Hands might accidentally go near faces but this wasn't one of those times. Thumb accidentally ended at the eye because his hand was in the wrong place intentionally.
• mozz87

  12:25 PM 02/09/2016

  I mean, they say there's no intent there, but he took his hand off the shoulder and moved it upwards, so where else was he going if not the face? Perhaps he got confused and thought the ball was underneath Douglas' eyelid?
• breakaway

  12:20 PM 02/09/2016

  I get that DrG. As you say, pundits spout blatant BS all over the world and people get on sites like this and say what they think. I do it myself, but I don't assume the pundit represents the whole rugby culture of SA, England or whatever. To use this situation to accuse a specific fan base of driving some imagined increase in arrogance and nastiness, with no objective evidence at all, is nonsense. It's just more spouting. I reckon the NZ fans' range of responses to this situation in general is probably no different than you'd get from any other fan group. Some good and some stupid. To pretend otherwise is rubbish. So I'm in the mood to call rubbish when I see it.
• drg

  10:58 AM 02/09/2016

  I think the main thing that gets people breakaway is the blatant amount of BS that was being spouted by those pundits up above...
  
  Most fans opinions are either contrary to the pundits, or with the pundits, (all pundits and all fans around the world)... so when ones rugby team does something shitty and a pundit stands up and says "no big deal" the rest of the world looks at that and unless there are a lot of fans from the same nation who disagree with said pundit, everyone gets tarred with the same brush...
  
  Also, who is breakaway? Who is any of us on here, perhaps your 'average joes'.... so in reality our opinions do not get heard, even when we collectively roar... especially against the likes of John Kirwan et al.....
  
  So really, until the 'big guns' come out and even say "I know Franks, there was no way he was trying to gouge, but the law is the law, and it was probably a big reckless... even though Franks is not that kind of guy, he should have probably got a warning".... the rest of the world will see NZ as being completely one eyed....
• oliver

  8:10 AM 02/09/2016

  Just "get over it"?
  Man that's awfully easy to say. Quite insulting too in my opinion.
  
  We all know, if there is one person allowed to hold a grudge against the AB, it's BOD.
• stroudos

  8:05 AM 02/09/2016

  This is the first time I've actually seen the Galarza incident. 9 weeks versus 0 weeks does seem quite crazy.
• stroudos

  11:18 PM 01/09/2016

  Dan, What about the caption at the start of the first video - "should Owen Franks facial be taken further"? I can certainly say that I have no interest in seeing a facial featuring Owen Franks! That would produce more than mere bile in the mouth...
• tphillipsstl

  8:08 PM 01/09/2016

  I am no fan of BOD, but he's right on this one. This is Shambolic (i believe that how you guys use it). And this non-sense about World Rugby or whatever it's called now not coming over the top of an existing judicial procedure...what crap. They did just that when Joe Marler called Samson Lee a "gypsy boy" in the six nations earlier this year.
• colombes

  6:55 PM 01/09/2016

  To move on (def): to put a difficult experience behind one and progress mentally or emotionally
  
  Some have stopped to read before the word "progress"
• drg

  5:44 PM 01/09/2016

  Nobody is being asked to assess a situation to determine whether a tricky law was twisted in a manner that allowed a ball to be put into a scrum which then lead to some sort of collapse followed by a quick tap followed by a potential forward pass which was semi intercepted but actually knocked forward by an opposition player but caught by the attacking team before it hit the ground, which then lead to a strange wrist lead handoff which was it a forearm or was it a hand, before the try was scored or not scored in the corner as it was placed before the line and on the line at the same time as the player did or did not have a toe in touch whilst the official did or didn't raise his flag at the same time the ball boy ran onto the pitch to collect a stray ball which turned out to be a testicle....
  
  We're talking about a players hand on a players face... the video at the top of the page shows at the 21-22 second mark a hand in the face of an Aussie player... the left thumb in the left eye.... I don't think he was searching for an eye, but you don't have to be an armchair forensic analyser; fortunately I am one however, to see what you can see... there isn't much room for law interpretation here.
  
  A gouge? No, not in the sense that it was an intentional effort... it was an accidental poke in the eye at worst (imo)... but based on the laws at hand and the current trend of banning anything that sneezes... it was ban worthy...
• danknapp

  5:19 PM 01/09/2016

  I think a bit of bile came up when I watched that third clip.
• drg

  3:13 PM 01/09/2016

  Thumb was very clearly in the eye for a split second, I believe Franks realised this and moved his thumb straight away, followed by a re positioning of his hand....
  
  This to me shows zero intent to gouge, but 100% proof of a hand in the eye area.... needed some sort of acknowledgement to this incident via way of a warning or ban.... to simply dismiss it seems to set some form of "recklessness doesn't matter" precedent....