Sun 1 Nov 2015 | 10:09

Highlights and celebrations as All Blacks win successive Rugby World Cup titles

47 Comments

• oldflyhalf

  7:36 PM 04/11/2015

  - McCaw, cling the player without the ball. - maximum, yellow card.
  - Pocock - red card, no doubt, for kicking with the boot in the head an opponent, lying on the ground.
  I think, after watching in slow motion, Pocock`s hit with the boot was intentionally, deliberately. It was not accidentaly. McCaw's reaction is relevant in this sense.
• drg

  1:55 PM 04/11/2015

  Thank you :)
  
  The thing is, I've looked at that a couple times and it seems to me Pocock looks down as he is lifting his leg, then before it reaches the highest point, he is back looking at the ruck, he skims McCaws head (intentional?)
  
  ...and to think I was calling for a card for a standard high shot... goodness me...
• drg

  1:51 PM 04/11/2015

  McCaw v Pocock, looks to me like McCaw is lying on the ground deliberately infringing and holding on, Pocock steps and stumbles as he tries to free his leg and McCaw gets punished for his holding on...
  
  I believe the lack of attention to the incident by Pocock meant McCaw probably realised it was purely an accident through him being a bad egg..
• drg

  1:32 PM 04/11/2015

  Probably would... I'm a good hypocrite like that...
  
  I guess the game is turning soft and as such my boundaries are forever being tested/adjusted and broken down...
  
  I suppose when I look back, I never really had an issue with MJ and his efforts: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZJxekUbtJQ
  ..so why I'm baying for cards is beyond me...
  
  I think the Burgess arm to Pocock jaw a few weeks ago had me looking for a card more than the Farrell incident, so I guess I can see the similarities with the two...
  
  But you're right, it's a pretty nothing incident..
• oldflyhalf

  12:47 PM 04/11/2015

  Kepu vs Carter : it was a late ILLEGALLY tackle. ...no doubt !
  
  In my opinion, it was a clear intention of Kepu it out from the game on the Carter. ...of course, "the intention of Kepu" it is another theme of discussing. :)
  
  Lawes vs Plisson : it was "a bit late" massive tackle, not more.
  
  In my opinion, The two incidents are not similar, comparable.
  
  By the way, how do you comment the incident at 25 min. of the match - a ruck -, that passed relatively unnoticed in the media, between Pocok and McCaw ?
• stroudos

  10:34 AM 04/11/2015

  If you're in the UK you can watch the whole game on the ITV website - https://www.itv.com/itvplayer/rugby-world-cup-2015 - or on the "ITV Player" app.
  
  I kept saying it was Sio above; it was actually Kepu that did the high and late tackles.
  
  I think the late one on Carter was around 20-25 minutes in, can't remember now.
  
  In my opinion, the comparison with Lawes v Plisson is a fair one. In both cases my view is that the "already committed sir" defence could be legitimately invoked.
• stroudos

  10:19 AM 04/11/2015

  One for DrG - and other fans of summary justice for bastards holding on to players and preventing them from getting to the next breakdown:
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MrmbcQHByUc
  
  Offside Rich on the floor there clearly clinging on to Pocock's leg and stopping him from getting to the ruck. Bosh! A tickle on the forehead with the boot and hey presto he lets go.
  
  I suspect that if Mr Owens et al had seen this stamp on the head, Pocock would have had to leave the field, probably for the remainder of the game - and that's with the score at 3-3... Pretty clear he knew exactly what he was doing and I don't think there could have been any complaints if Nige had shown him a red. However, I think it's extremely UNLIKELY that Offside Rich would have received any punishment for cynically hanging on to Pocock's leg like that.
  
  On a side note, McCaw's head must be made out of concrete - he's been on the receiving end of loads of stuff like this and it never seems to affect him...
• stroudos

  9:36 AM 04/11/2015

  DrG - by the way, that tackle on Pocock - if a card had been shown you'd be on here seething about the injustice. Arguably a penalty, but Mr Owens played a long spell of advantage which was probably the better option at the time. You could hear him asking TMO to check it out; presumably Mr HighVeldt didn't think it was worth going back to it. It was indeed a high tackle, but no biggie and not card-worthy.
• drg

  11:30 PM 03/11/2015

  The words are often used indiscriminately, we say things like "massive hit" for a monster tackle when in reality hit is often used in a negative light amongst officials.
  
  So I guess if we want to get technical and legal, a hit is often classed as a 'no arms tackle'... where as a tackle is a tackle...
• oliver

  4:54 PM 03/11/2015

  also, we all naturaly tend to dwell more on refereeing calls when our team loses....the kiwis are still moaning about that forward pass in 2007 for instance. And many french fans still talk about Benazzi's almost try in the 1995 semi-final! 20 years later....
• drg

  12:22 PM 03/11/2015

  Can someone get a video of the Sio hit on Carter, because I really don't see the connection, Lawes was far closer and Plisson had the ball right until the last moment. The only reason Lawes tackle ends up being 'bad' is because Plissons shoulder/head hit the ground first..
  
  You draw a player like Lawes in and you'll get what you get. At the end of the day Plisson did an admirable job running a line and drawing a defender and shipping it milliseconds before getting smashed... Thats what a good player aims to do...(draw the defender...not get smashed)..
• jimmy23

  12:20 PM 03/11/2015

  First off, congratulations NZ. I never saw anyone else winning this and if there were ever a group of retiring players who deserved to defend their title it was McCaw, Carter and co.
  
  Although I'm severely disappointed with England's effort, I for one am glad that the Southern Hemisphere dominated. This might finally be the sign for the NH to start realising that the brand of Rugby that features up North simply isn't good enough.
• drg

  12:12 PM 03/11/2015

  Breakaway, you make a very good point, in a lot of countries Rugby is perhaps the second choice sport, but in Aus there are a heck of a lot of sports ahead of Rugby Union...
  
  Out of the RWC home nations you've got:
  England = Soccer, cricket/rugby
  Ireland = Hurling and soccer are massive, then maybe rugby?
  Scotland = battered marsbarring, tossing the caber, haggis hunting, tartan twisting, drinking, moaning about the english, moaning about everyone else...a few other things here and there, then eventually rugby
  Wales = sheep sh-...yes...well...
• drg

  12:07 PM 03/11/2015

  Why would it have been a disgrace?
  
  Was it a disgrace when Japan beat South Africa? Because South Africa are supposed to always beat lesser nations? Or the Tri nations? Because South Africa has won 20 and drawn 1 of their 22 games against Argentina?
  
  Was it not a disgraceful act from Wales to beat England and made it out of the pools when England beat Wales in the 6N earlier?!?!? (Some Eng fans might think so...)
  
  In other words, don't be a plank, consistency is indeed what we ask for in our own teams and in the refereeing world, but tell me the last time France has EVER been consistent? Consistently inconsistent perhaps?
• drg

  12:00 PM 03/11/2015

  Indeed I was having a few drinks and a couple of occasions I was probably distracted and/or eating/getting grub...
  
  I'd like to say I was 100% fixated on this (for once) enthralling match, but that would be a lie..
• roadpig

  2:41 AM 03/11/2015

  DrG - you are a gent. Totally agree with your comments regarding the refereeing - on-field refs were excellent (together with the much maligned Joubert), while the TMO intervention was frustrating (including both when and how they chose to intervene). Subsequent disciplinary decisions (what was cited, what was punished and the extent of the punishments dispensed in each particular case) were confusing, inconsistent, and made me think that there may be something to the oft-raised contention that Tier 1 nations (and SH in particular) receive more favourable treatment than the others.
  
  Re world cup in Europe, I was just impressed with how the NH public supported the cup, despite their teams being knocked out at the QFs, and the fact that it was located in the hub of a number of strong rugby nations (Wales, Ireland, France, Scotland and England etc).
• breakaway

  11:47 PM 02/11/2015

  I take your point, Oliver, and of course sports like basketball and others are big in Australia too. I didn't go into detail (my posts are already too long) but the matter of rugby competing with not just one, but two or three other powerful football codes is very pertinent. Rugby League and/or Aussie Rules absolutely dominate the football culture across Australia in a way that few people who haven't lived in the country appreciate. So not only do they attract the vast majority of the potential fan base, sponsorship money and media attention, without even mentioning the competition from other major sports like soccer, cricket etc, they also absorb the bulk of exactly the kind of young athletes that would do well in Union. It's this competition with two similar but much bigger and more wealthy football codes in all regions of a relatively small general population, that makes Australia's case a little different, in my opinion.
  And with the fan base strung thinly around the edge of a land mass that would easily swallow up Europe/GB and then some, the economics of trying to run a workable national competition to develop young players are also formidable. In comparison to the wealth of the game in countries like France and England, a year ago the ARU announced that it was nearly insolvent and only a WCup TV deal saved them from literally running out of cash by 2015.
  So I'm not trying to write a sob story for Australian rugby, just noting a few of the particular challenges that it faces. They've made four WC Finals and won a couple of them, playing a fine brand of rugby. Oz rugby gets a lot of knockers online (not so much on RD) so I'm happy to defend what I think is a pretty admirable record, all things considered.
• lockdog

  10:42 PM 02/11/2015

  Stephen Moore is a class act.
• oldflyhalf

  9:07 PM 02/11/2015

  Hansen, 2015.10.31: 'we will see running rugby'.
• rememberthemer

  9:01 PM 02/11/2015

  Kepu had a clean game apart from twatting McCaw with another high-after-the-balls-gone swinging arm. Just after he passes the ball to NMS for the try.
• oldflyhalf

  8:09 PM 02/11/2015

  Gentlemen, what is the difference in your opinion, legally speaking, between "a hit" and "a tackle" in a rugby game ?
• oldflyhalf

  7:58 PM 02/11/2015

  the first tackle it was "a late hit", not "a late tackle". yellow card, no doubt.
• oldflyhalf

  7:48 PM 02/11/2015

  ...right, my apologies.
• oliver

  7:00 PM 02/11/2015

  well he did give a penalty and he didn't for Plisson. That's the aggrieving thing for us froggies. anyways I can't speak for other French fans, but at the time I said if Plisson had been wearing a shirt of a different color, that Lawes hit would have been penalized, and I've been proven right in the final.
  But now that you mention it, a tarred and feathered Lawes is a tempting suggestion!!
• stroudos

  4:58 PM 02/11/2015

  *Correction: Kepu, not Sio...
• danknapp

  4:56 PM 02/11/2015

  That match was quite simply the best display of rugby I've ever seen, taking the context into consideration. How many teams would have frozen in that situation? The ABs just keep taking rugby into uncharted territory, the rest of the world, particular our game in the NH, needs to catch up fast.
• danknapp

  4:50 PM 02/11/2015

  Bet he has a whopping great cock as well. Bastard.
• stroudos

  4:21 PM 02/11/2015

  @Oliver,
  I'm not telepathic, but I'm pretty certain Monsieur Owens would not have given anything for that "late" hit on Carter. TMO seemed to be gagging for a yellow and I think Nige was very reluctant to even give a penalty. I'd agree with the comparison with Lawes v Plisson - in my opinion, both were either play-on or penalty, no more than that. I don't think I've seen any New Zealand fans demanding that Sio be banned/shot/tarred and feathered though, the way the French were for Lawesy.
• stroudos

  4:08 PM 02/11/2015

  Everywhere except NZ, the Pacific Islands and South Africa, I would suggest? Although I believe there's a sizeable shift towards wendyball in SA these days.
• stroudos

  3:57 PM 02/11/2015

  You missed the two tackles by Sio on Carter? How!? Presumably you watched the game accompanied by many glasses of hop juice?
  
  Both tackles brilliantly managed by Mr Owens - put the yellow-hungry TMO back in his box on the first (a DrG special - already committed sir, marginally late hit), and again just a penalty for the high tackle was appropriate. You could also hear Mr Owens having a chat with Sio on the jog back to the restart, just politely asking him to rein it in a bit. As far as I recall, Sio had a very clean game from that point on.
  
  The forward pass was clearly visible to everyone except Mr Barnes.
• drg

  12:18 PM 02/11/2015

  That's because those brainless halfwits across the globe consider that pansy game of Soccer/Football to be the greatest sport known to man.... Mind you, I'd rather rugby remain an elite sport for the fans, rather than a sport for the masses of prats that would kill an opposition fan in a snail racing competition....
• drg

  12:13 PM 02/11/2015

  oldflyhalf, I missed the forward pass and the 2 tackles on Carter... like I said in my original comment I think the refereeing was pretty good, it was only that the Pocock getting tackled video was highlighted and I caught that and thought, that should probably have been a card.
• drg

  12:11 PM 02/11/2015

  Brilliant reply Roadpig. I think it's comments such as yours that make our sport such a wonderful one. You have clearly accepted some of my points, but also disagreed with some others yet I have no feelings of animosity as RD=/=Youtube! (hooray!)
  
  I can totally understand that being an NZ fan means you perhaps didn't see any issues with Jouberts refereeing... perhaps on the opposite side of the coin, perhaps the rest of the world NOT being NZ fans, meant the majority overly and perhaps unfairly scrutinised Jouberts refereeing..... probably not ;) haha, but you never know.
  
  As you said, this final however was a fantastic final and the winners won it strongly and confidently - even if the game ended with a much tighter scoreline, either team would have looked strong in taking the victory and strong in defeat - whereas the 2011, both teams looked somewhat shakey and unsure if they really should be the ones to actually win.
  
  I'm not sure about keeping the RWC in Europe, it was a great tournament, but I'm sure other nations will do it proud. Japan will benefit hugely from it.
  
  The tournament on a whole was good, but I'm still concerned about the direction rugby is heading. This tournament was full of some scary bans. It seemed the refereeing was of a pretty good standard overall, but the off field antics by the citing commissioners and banning bunch have me very worried.
• oliver

  10:53 AM 02/11/2015

  " the difficulties for rugby in a society where it's often the third or fourth ranked code of football"
  
  that's actually how it is everywhere except NZ....if you take France, rugby actually comes after football/soccer, basket ball and handball, by the numbers of players per federation.
• oliver

  10:21 AM 02/11/2015

  Brilliant final for a brilliant cup. Well done AB's.
  how good is Carter....That drop goal was stunning (again).
  Not much more to say, except quite a few French fans noticed that Nigel Owens gave a penalty for that bordeline late tackle on Carter, which he did not when a Frenchman (Plisson) was on the receiving end of that Courtney Lawes pummeling....and the timing was exactly the same! Btw I believe a yellow card should have been in order when Kepu tackled high maybe 2 min later... he had just been warned?! Also props to Carter for recovering so well and kicking a penalty just afterwards.
• katman

  7:11 AM 02/11/2015

  Well done, Kiwis. Not just good rugby players, but they also play the game in a very good spirit. It's hard to dislike any of the current crop of All Blacks even if they won''t stop bloody winning - and I guess that's part of what makes them special. A much deserved win, but next time the Boks will be kicking some Kiwi butt, if the Japanese don't beat us to it.
• breakaway

  5:09 AM 02/11/2015

  As a New Zealander and life-long ABs fan living in Australia for a number of years, I've eventually been able to do the unthinkable for some of my NZ friends and family, and adopt the Wallabies as my second team. Seeing the Australians play so often has given me a familiarity with the players, and an appreciation of their attitude and style of game that allows me to pretty much barrack for them against anyone but NZ. I also follow the AFL and watch quite a bit of NRL and see the difficulties for rugby in a society where it's often the third or fourth ranked code of football.
  It wasn't so long ago that Australian rugby was in poor shape. The style attempted to be free-running but often looked repetitive and uninspired, and the packs were getting marched about the paddock too often. The loses were stacking up, and you could sense the media and public losing interest, in a country where there is so much other sport going on. So, in my opinion, the turnaround in recent months has been a very good thing, because I think a strong, adventurous and successful (up to a point!) Wallabies is good for international rugby. Australia always has some great players but in some periods the depth hasn't been there. Maybe they're entering one of those eras where the right group of players and the right coach starts to make things tick along nicely for a while.
  In 2011 NZ played their best match of the WC tournament against Australia, and they knew they had to bring their best against them this time too. It feels pretty good to be an All Blacks fan at the moment, but I'm also glad about how well the Aussies played throughout this WC and I'll continue to enjoy supporting them, despite my sister's dismay.
• roadpig

  3:52 AM 02/11/2015

  DrG - despite being an AB fan, I am inclined to agree with the bulk of your comments. I would say it was a relief to win in 2011, and it is a shame that it was in somewhat contentious circumstances (I still maintain that Joubert was excellent, and favoured nobody, but I wear black glasses and that debate has been done to death), but I was just pleased to have done so, and I can see that anyone not from NZ would have issue with some of the calls.
  
  This final was pleasing not just because we won (although it helped), but because the ABs did so by playing beautiful rugby, the retiring legends played out of their skins (Carter, Nonu and McCaw), and there was not one terrible decision which any true fan could quibble with or which would have affected the final result.
  
  I had steeled myself for the opposite result, given that it is arguably good for both world rugby and NZ for the ABs to lose, and a new champion in Australia would certainly spice up the next four years. In addition, I may be wrong, but it seems like the number of d!ckhead NZ fans is on the rise, with people forgetting that it is only sport, albeit the one they play in heaven.
  
  Excellent tournament on the whole, and I think there is a good argument for keeping it in Europe from now on, particularly with every game selling out despite the absence of NH teams in the semis.
• oldflyhalf

  11:12 PM 01/11/2015

  "I think there was a tackle on Pocock maybe that probably should have had a card..."
  
  - Scott Sio, the 2 tackles on Carter -do you remember?- should have had a card ? :)
  
  - It was a forward pass to Nehe Milner - visible from the moon, but not and for this "wayne-barnes", the same as in 2007, and All Blacks scored 3 points.
  Anyway, luckily for W.Barnes, "his proverbial myopia" has not decisively influenced the winner of the final.
  
  Chapeau bas for the both sides, for Nigel Owens and Jerome Graces! Great !
  Anyway, a epic game, for legend ! :)
• colombes

  9:52 PM 01/11/2015

  Congrats AB's
  Their 2015 world-class performances make me forget this 'bitter' taste after the rwc 2011 final.
  More than win the cup, they set the tone for the next 4 years and 2019.
  Wonder how immense talents like Cruuden, Cane, Smith, Barrett, Ratellick and Savea will assume new leaderships.
  
  Hope the NH nations will consider autumn and summer tours as the goals of the next seasons.
  Ireland, Scotland and Wales have the calendar to compete, not the players depth
  France and England, quite the contrary.
• facepalm

  8:06 PM 01/11/2015

  Sonny Bill; Two rugby world cups, one league world cup, heavy weight boxing champion of New Zealand, now chasing an Olympic medal, better looking than me, and also as it turns out a nicer guy than me. Fuck.
• drg

  7:35 PM 01/11/2015

  I think I might be the cloud comment, so sorry if I offend....
  
  BUT:
  
  I really enjoyed the game and (here's the part some won't like), I didn't feel New Zealand were the right team to win the 2011 RWC based on the 2011 final, they were a good team, but shaky and I feel that Joubert gave them too many decisions.. THEREFORE.. to see the REAL NZ playing in this final was great. They fought for the win, they played really well and the officiating was pretty fair, I think there was a tackle on Pocock maybe that probably should have had a card, but all in all it was just a great game.
  
  I think the other nice thing about it is that as much as we (or I) gripe about the 2011 tournament, I don't have anything bad to say about this tournament, NZ were the best team entering the tournament and they played like the best team throughout!
  
  Well done NZ, commiserations Aus.
  
  Aus also did very well, I feel they were definitely second best (due to the recent form of NZ), but they did so well to hold their own and thoroughly deserved to be in the final. (Yes that Joubert reffing against Scotland wasn't great, but even the real Scots fans know that 'that' decision wasn't necessarily going to change the result..)
• oldflyhalf

  3:39 PM 01/11/2015

  If you like, this story, from what I know, is the small difference between how understand the new zealanders the rugby, as a social phenomenon, as play, and how understand/feel the rest of those who practice this sport, who plays rugby. Maybe I'm idealistic, or maybe not. :)
• vladimir

  1:43 PM 01/11/2015

  True, Hansen is an amazing coach. He is unbelievably composed and thorough, and the way he understands the game and redirects his team during the game (especially halftime) is incredible.
• oldflyhalf

  1:33 PM 01/11/2015

  Mighty All Black, a new levela, a new challenge for the rest of the rugby world ! It is rugby in pure form !
  Certainly these guys in black entered in the rugby history. All of these boys in black are already a legend, a gorgeous legend.
• vladimir

  1:22 PM 01/11/2015

  You missed this moment: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o1efwKglwZU
• i_bleed_green_and_gold

  1:05 PM 01/11/2015

  Congrats New Zealand. The best team at the tournament. Now on to 4 more years of banter, analysis and world cup prep for the rest of us. With Hansen still in charge I suspect 3 in a row is not out of the question.