Sun 14 Jan 2018 | 05:22

Mathieu Bastareaud shocks fans as homophobic slur is heard worldwide

72 Comments

• drg

  2:21 PM 20/01/2018

  Dan, you're not far from the truth with your first sentence, however the difference between common sense and your definition of political correctness is that one is inherited through surroundings, parents, friends, life etc and the other is policed....
  
  Common sense is to not walk up to a group of black men as a white man and call them niggers....why? Because of a few reasons ranging from unnecessarily rude, it shows you to be a shitty person and most of all you open yourself to having the shit kicked out of you....
  
  Political correctness on the other hand is going into the realms of having to call people alternative names that mean the same thing so as to not hurt their feelings.. Fat... No, that's not a nice word to say, people must be called idk what these days "above average waistline" or some bollocks like that...
  
  Of course if you'd like to start dictating which words should be policed and which shouldn't (such as racist terms, homophobic, religious negativities) then that's fine, but you open up a further world of protecting some people but not others... It won't work..
• felipeg

  11:53 AM 18/01/2018

  What is sad is that french players feel the need to swear in (american)english. "Bourse molle" ou "vil pendard" would have been more pleasant.
  Bastareaud should be condemned for his lack of taste.
• drg

  4:36 PM 17/01/2018

  I'm some respect yes, it would be someone showing their ignorance in not being able to insult someone correctly... However I would go one step further and say "in some respect no" because in this day and age nigger seems to be applied to anyone with dark skin, and as Faletau has dark skin...well..you do the math..
  
  I would however say that once again you're talking in shades of another insult... So take Black Bastareud and more tanned Faletau and see where and when we can apply racial connotations is rather opposite to calling a straight guy gay or a faggot...
• amadahn

  3:43 PM 17/01/2018

  Bastareud should have called Negri an asshole. At least he would be more literally correct and not in as much trouble....
• drg

  3:09 PM 17/01/2018

  I still maintain this was a simple case of Bastareud calling him Negri one of these..
  https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faggot_(food)
• drg

  3:09 PM 17/01/2018

  I still maintain this was a simple case of Bastareud calling him Negri one of these..
  https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faggot_(food)
• drg

  3:06 PM 17/01/2018

  "Verbal abuse of Players based on Religion, Race, Colour, or National or Ethnic Origin, sexual orientation or otherwise"
  
  Right....so can someone clarify if Negri is actually gay then? Because obviously that makes a huge difference to Bastareuds charge... Using the above, if Bastareud had said "you honky Zimbabwean piece of shit" then we'd see an accurate punishment based on the above, however if Negri is not gay and we silly having "fucking faggot" then it does not victimise Negri based on his sexuality, therefore it could be ruled that this is just "swearing" and joy of joys end of story no reason to drag this out...
  
  If Negri is gay and that was a direct unpleasant remark towards his sexuality then I can somewhat entertain a punishment...however I still feel most rugby folk are thicker skinned than that...
• dancarter

  2:23 PM 17/01/2018

  Not sure where I cast myself as the sole arbiter on the use of language. The word f*ggot is a derogatory word with a long history of use as an insult towards homosexuals, I don't think it's acceptable, and it is forbidden as per the laws of the game: "Verbal abuse of Players based on Religion, Race, Colour, or National or Ethnic Origin, sexual orientation or otherwise".
• jimmy23

  12:55 PM 17/01/2018

  Oh god, now we've got people claiming we can't say "Christmas" anymore.
  
  Keep it to rugby, I don't need to hear generic complaints about SJWs here, there's enough of that nonsense on the internet.
• drg

  12:38 PM 17/01/2018

  Actually to add...what are you talking about regarding the discrimination against minorities in US sports???
  
  Are you actually talking g about minorities or JUST gay people?
  
  NFL...try and spot a team without a vast majority of black men in it.
  NBA again, the same
  Baseball, not quite a big presence as the above but many 'non whites' etc etc
  
  If you're talking about trans people then are you surprised? If you have a daughter that gets into boxing or any sort of physical contact sport, how would you feel about her getting pitched against a male?
  
  When I played rugby at school it often felt like our entire team probably had about 4 pubic hairs between us, yet sometimes we faced boys which looked like a relation to Chewbacca, beards and all... I have a lot of empathy for gender confused people, none of us can imagine how it must be in their heads but that doesn't mean I want to see my niece's, or daughter (if I have a child) pitched against a testosterone filled male who identifies as a female..
• drg

  12:26 PM 17/01/2018

  Tom C, that's not really what I asked, I said if you were in charge, let's say you have e any and all powers of punishment available to you and you're trying to set a precedent, what punishment would you suggest for Bastareud on account of your views on his language?
  
  For instance if I was in charge of everything and there was a gouging case in front of me, I'd ban for life...
  A case of two players competing for a high ball and one catches it, the other doesn't, they crash to the ground as shown in so many cases and the non catcher gets red carded...if I was in charge, I'd issue an apology to all cases before, remove that ridiculous ruling and get everyone back on with the game...
  
  So what would you do with Bastareud?
• drg

  11:23 AM 17/01/2018

  Could be onto something, Bastareud reacts after both:
  A) the little push
  B) the "fucking gay/game" comment
  
  If his reaction is to the push then that's that..
  
  But he wouldn't react to "..fucking game" would he? However he would be likely to react to being called a "fucking gay"...
  
  Or maybe it was just the little push...
• drg

  11:14 AM 17/01/2018

  Colombes what you've written around the word asshole is precisely my point, someone somewhere will find that word grossly offensive, c**t another word that the majority of females dispise and a lot of males tend not to use so should that be the subject of a ban also? Of course not!
  
  Aside from Bastareud not being a native English speaker, there is the strong sense of personal borders and lines that people don't cross because of what society feels in a collective groan, rather than what the police or citing mob or everyone else can punish! C**t for example is a prime example, feminists would destroy you for using that word and it's due to their views on historical discrimination against women... However the word is not banned, it's just a word that if you speak you'll get evil eyes, that is what society needs if they're desperate to change the use of faggot... Not bans, fines, career terminations etc..
  
  For the record how many of you have gone through school and used the insult "gay"? A gay coursemate of mine years ago told me "don't be such a gay".. I'm sure many homosexuals would frown on him using terms like that.. and perhaps society has moulded him into using language like that... But would he be homophobic for usong it?
• colombes

  9:18 AM 17/01/2018

  So if i follow your logic, Bastareaud, who is not fluent in english, should in the space of few seconds, pick and understand the meaning of "cunt" "dickhead" or "asshole" (or asshole is also an homophobic allusion in your book?) before to let go his frustration?
  
  Bastareaud was pretty brutal and incorrect in his reaction, but to pretend without analysis he's homophobic through this social media lynching is quite annoying.
  
  Did you throw your book at them few months ago? Were they sanctioned?
  http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=11830024
  https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/super-rugby/82713817/chiefs-apologise-launch-investigation-into-alleged-antigay-slur-at-post-season-party
• rememberthemer

  7:31 AM 17/01/2018

  So if some called Basteraud a boonga that would okay bacause he is not polynesian? You would be bad for calling, say, Faletau a boonga, but you could call him a nigger because he has no African ancestry?
• drg

  1:35 AM 17/01/2018

  Look at the dates mate... 3-4 years ago, the white knights have come out full force since then... Most are trying to make up for the centuries of oppression by the white man...
  
  I say perhaps the social justice 'warriors' (laughable terminology) turn their attentions to the shit storms in the middle East where rather than blokes being offended by someone calling someone a faggot, they're being forced to watch gay folk being thrown off buildings or hanged, etc... Maybe wait until the rest of the world has caught up before going off on a bunch of blokes trying to throw around a fucking ball for a living...
• drg

  1:31 AM 17/01/2018

  Of course they do in the sense that they are totally unrelated, Bastareud is black, therefore calling him a nigger is a direct derogatory remarks to the colour of his skin, him calling me or anyone one else a faggot - which lets not forget is also a food - is not an insult to my sexual orientation..its a flippant insult like calling someone an idiot...
• drg

  1:28 AM 17/01/2018

  In my cry for context above, regarding the Flannery incident, there was something going on in the scrums to which Flannery responded "dat's da fookin second toime you fat c**t"....
  
  And yes, there is talk about banning words like Christmas in certain areas, "Christmas work do?" No, a "end of year festive party"...
  
  Regardless of how wide spread that is, why shouldn't it be next in the list of BANNED things? Think about it rationally...let's say worst thing in humanity has been racism, next we'll have sexism (perhaps), then homophobia, of course we're already delving into the trans-gender-phobia, no doubt we'll get into some trans-species-phobia, of course in amongst that lot we've already got islamophobia, which is not so much a fear of Islam as much of a fear of violence from jihadists (but who's splitting hairs).., according to some millenials saying "bless you" when someone sneezes is a micro aggression, this is because the person you are 'blessing' may not be Christian... So on so forth...
  
  I'll admit we've dived more onto the futures of political correctness madness here rather than the topic of Bastareud opening his mouth, but it does go somewhat hand in hand...
• drg

  1:20 AM 17/01/2018

  And many black us rappers use the word nigger or nigga today....what's your point? Context to that usage please? Was it a "get rid of all the niggers" comment, or was it a black guy saying "come in my niggas vote for me"...
  
  Of course I very much doubt the latter but it'd be nice to know...
• finedisregard

  11:52 PM 16/01/2018

  Yes I am.
  
  Also class prejudice, misogyny, and colonialism are all parts of the fabric of rugby. I've been playing for 25 years over three continents. Some of the culture is old-fashioned but I don't want to destroy it.
  
  Would you deny this? Rugby has a lot of stuff in our culture good and bad. Sorry millennials, the game didn't start with synthetic jerseys and neon boots.
• finedisregard

  11:47 PM 16/01/2018

  Dan, you don't get to decide what players can and cannot say on a rugby pitch or in society at large. Your belief that you have a say in what others think makes you a social justice warrior.
  
  Sensitivity to language has not been part of the game historically.
• rememberthemer

  11:35 PM 16/01/2018

  Are you saying that homophobic abuse is part of "the fabric of the game"?
• dancarter

  9:37 PM 16/01/2018

  Nobody is banning the word Christmas lol
  
  I was 12 at the time of the Thompson-Flannery incident so I had no idea about it, I hadn't picked up a rugby ball at that age. I am not a fan of it all, I don't think there is any need for that kind of thing on a rugby field, or anywhere else.
• dancarter

  9:27 PM 16/01/2018

  When you consider that in the 60s, some tory candidates used the N word in their campaign slogan, I would say that we have definitely made progress.
• dancarter

  9:18 PM 16/01/2018

  Not entirely sure what your point is? These 2 things don't cancel each other out, and any abuse he has suffered doesn't give him the right to make other people feel unwelcome in the sport. Any racist abuse Bastareaud has experienced is as equally unacceptable as any homophobic abuse. Only Bastareaud knows whether he fully understood the words that he chose to use.
• dancarter

  9:15 PM 16/01/2018

  I am not a social justice warrior. I just don't want homophobic language to be used by anyone, anywhere, including on a rugby pitch. I don't know how punishing those who do this in any way destroys the fabric of the game.
• reality

  9:09 PM 16/01/2018

  Well, political correctness means that the word Christmas can't be used in certain places for fear of offending non-Christians. Is that moral common sense? I'd argue it's complete nonsense, as are most instances of political correctness. As an Irish person, if someone makes a comment about Irish people loving alcohol, that's politically incorrect, but I don't give a toss about it and don't waste my energy getting outraged over something so pointless. Luckily I have CoventryWasps to get outraged on my behalf.
  
  Anyway, did you get this outraged when Jerry Flannery called Steve Thompson a fat c*nt? If not, why not? He insulted someone by exposing his weight problem. The reason is obviously that this Bastareaud insult is politically incorrect now, whereas the other one isn't. In other words, it's fashionable to be outraged over this term but not over the other.
• reality

  9:01 PM 16/01/2018

  The fact that you call political correctness 'social progression' is madness to me, but, whatever floats your boat. If getting outraged at offhand remarks is social progression, then you must be really advanced, and the fact that I don't get outraged over these non-events must mean that I'm a caveman.
• colombes

  6:31 PM 16/01/2018

  You're right.
  
  I'm pretty sure Bastareaud always felt welcome after being branded "fat nigger" on many rugby pitchs, now he will be labelled "homophobic" for saying "faggot" than any others insults he doesn't even know the true meaning.
• colombes

  6:21 PM 16/01/2018

  I remember 2 recent cases of homophobia in rugby.
  It didn't trigger as many exchanges
  it is to ask what is the real subject of the debate here.
  
  http://www.rugbydump.com/2014/11/3978/two-fans-banned-following-investigation-into-homophobic-abuse-of-referee
  
  http://www.rugbydump.com/2015/03/4160/jacques-potgieter-fined-20000-for-homophobic-comments-against-the-brumbies
• colombes

  5:51 PM 16/01/2018

  Possible, i've rewatched it few times. still difficult to clearly get what he said.
  Bastareaud potential sanction could well be the result of a misunderstanding...
• finedisregard

  5:26 PM 16/01/2018

  I want a sport that is not governed by social justice warriors trying to destroy the fabric of the game.
• rdump0

  4:54 PM 16/01/2018

  Yes, that's how it works. One player shouts 'fucking gay' to another player, and the other player responded with 'fucking faggot'.
  And at the end, the french player gets banned. Anything unusual?
• ruckinmaul

  4:20 PM 16/01/2018

  so, one player shouted 'fucking gay' to another player, and the other player responded with 'fucking faggot' to the first player. Both guilty though but nothing much since both use the
  
  but the funny thing is the fans are the one actually hurts by the words.
  
  Another side, if Basteraud is actually a gay, and he is actually hurts by Negri calling him 'fucking gay', does Negri gets punish and Basteraud not. Since he is a gay, calling someone gay should be okay?
  
  Interesting weird scenario aye.
• dancarter

  3:13 PM 16/01/2018

  I hope they throw the book at him, there is no place for this in the game. I want rugby to be a sport where everyone feels welcome.
• dancarter

  3:12 PM 16/01/2018

  Political correctness is just moral common sense that leads to changes to the way we speak to make it more inclusive. There are occasions when it can go a bit too far, but I think it's often used as a way of rejecting positive change by suggesting that the people pushing for this change are politically correct killjoys. Overall I think it's a good thing.
• drg

  2:56 PM 16/01/2018

  That is next to come, female teams with born males who identify as females participating... They already have this in other sports, martial arts in fact.
  
  Gay acceptance has already happened, this sort of overblown hype around this incident is all that is holding progression back. Rugby players are renowned for striving to compete and proving things to be wrong, whether that comes in the form of "gays can't play rugby".. which has already been countered by Gareth Thomas and I'd guess others or any other negative..
  
  If society moved together to say "Bastareud grow up" then the world moves forward... People are allowed to use the word faggot as a derogatory term and people are allowed to tell them to grow up... All this stifling of language is doing is creating a sub culture of living negativity, we aren't stamping out racism or sexism or homophobia by pretending those words don't exist, we're putting a blanket over it and hiding it with hope that we can police it out of existence...
  
  For the record, how do we know Bastareud wasn't calling Negri a type of edible meat faggot? You're getting all trumped up, and upset by this when he could simply be acting in the same manner as calling someone a fucking donut! Lighten up, it'll do your heart and mind wonders..
• drg

  2:43 PM 16/01/2018

  Tbh, i won't address everything you've written as I'm on my phone so it's not so 'type' friendly...
  
  10-20% of gay male players...is that not what you said? So as I said, if those 10-20% identifying as gay are in the sport then would it be wrong to assume they've gone through grass roots? My point was, if we are any more openly accepting of gay people (remember one of the top respected referees is gay) then how much more of a percentage of male players to identify as gay do you expect? Because wouldn't 10-20% of male players being gay somewhat fit the worldwide gay percentage? (You may have a better knowledge on the gay percentages than I do).
  
  Are you yourself gay? You can choose not to asnwer or to answer, however I'd consider it interesting if you yourself are not gay, as you are taking a very strong standpoint towards the matter and once again justifying your opinion over others differing opinions...
  
  The two jobs with gay men that come to mind are the most obvious jobs that most people will have contact with, not to mention those in any form of showbiz whether it's YouTubers or TV, they are the ones that are the most vocal in life. There are of course homosexuals in all walks of life, I was neighbours to a guy who is gay who is a surveyor. But typically you're taking the stance challenging my sources, but whoever they are to me what does it matter, again, because my sources go against your script they have to be outed...
  
  But perhaps it's because we're not all teenagers after a safe space. The gay guys I know are all 25+ and really don't give a shit about name calling. Once again this was not a team shunning a gay player who has the skills but 'not the sexuality', this was a remark made by one player to another and you'd never have known it but for the mic.
  
  The world is not progressing socially, in fact we have the cores of what we know in science and biology, such as genders beings challenged because people don't want to have a label....
• coventrywasps

  11:18 AM 16/01/2018

  Yes it's so sad that the world is progressing socially.
• coventrywasps

  10:19 AM 16/01/2018

  Yes, you are speaking as a 64 year old woman, not a gay man
• coventrywasps

  10:11 AM 16/01/2018

  be completely fabricated. You just pull that one out to hide your backwards views, or maybe your confused feelings, I don't know, I'm getting a lot of mixed signals from you. Also, "supposed straight guys", when did any of us declare our sexuality at the beginning of this thread? That just confirms that you see this as only a sport for straight men, if you couldn't even consider that respondents here might have differing sexual orientations.
  
  In total you have cited 3 gay people that you may or may not know. Sorry, that doesn't make you an authority on the matter of homophobia in rugby....
  
  Using that language doesn't explicitly state that homosexuals aren't welcome in the game, but it most certainly infers they are not, or somehow not up to the task.
  
  It's about empathy and realising that just because certain things uttered don't have an effect on us individually, they may for others. If that is being "PC, futuristic, modern", so be it.
• coventrywasps

  9:58 AM 16/01/2018

  ...rest of that paragraph are just stereotypes that don't deserve attention.
  
  "I know a couple people who would not care one way or another about Bastareuds comment, they are gay, they are apparently less offended than a whole heard of you supposed straight guys on here..."
  
  This one's my fave. "I'm not racist, I have black friends"..."I'm not homophobic, I have gay friends". But actually, you can't go as far to call them friends, you just know them. I'd "hazard a guess" they might be colleagues, or somebody you know through others, or that might even
• coventrywasps

  9:52 AM 16/01/2018

  "so you're saying 10-20% of male players have gone through grass roots, gone into pro level and gone beyond that potentially into international level with this dreadful type of abysmal language being present???? Wow! That's incredible, so obviously we should stamp out the language with an iron fist so that what, we can get the percentages up to 50-60%?"
  
  Wut? Do you get how percentages work? I guess not, but, nevertheless, sexual orientation is being used in verbal attack in the sense it makes you a lesser man to be attracted to your own sex. If that is ingrained in all levels of the sport, as you suggest, then no wonder there are not more openly gay players - who would want to admit that their being is the very thing that is openly used in a derogatory sense? As long as that culture exists, as you are so sure it does across the entire rugby world, then players will never feel comfortable to be open about their sexuality, no matter what that is, unless they are heterosexual.
  
  "if gay folk are going to play, I'd hazard a guess they will play and not be particularly bothered by comments like Bastareuds"
  
  Don't speak for groups you have no experience of being a member of. If you were a white man talking from the perspective of black or Asian players no one would take you seriously. The same applies for sexual orientation, you literally have no idea what you are talking about.
  
  "Look at many gay men n the media spotlight or in cabin crew and they tend to hold their appearance in high regard, are openly quite flamboyant and tend to display a lot of effeminate traits, there is nothing marginalising about them doing that themselves and appearing less 'macho' in the typical sense of the word than"
  
  Wow, first of all, the fact that the first jobs that come to mind for you with regards to homosexuality are those in showbusiness and air stewards...really? Secondly, how are these two professions and the people who perform them representative of all gay men?...
• drg

  12:09 AM 16/01/2018

  I actually thought the rugby mob were far more 'common sense' than evidenced here...
  
  It seemed to me as shown by the likes of Gareth Thomas that most of us are fairly open to not really caring who someone hooks up with. I thought that we still operate in a game where shoulders and boots may break our bones but names just either make us laugh or 'square up' to an opponent..
  
  Let us not forget Bakkies Botha's displays of homophobia by blowing kisses to riled up opponents.. surely we can come up with some sort of hate crime charge there...
• drg

  12:02 AM 16/01/2018

  So you're saying 10-20% of male players have gone through grass roots, gone into pro level and gone beyond that potentially into international level with this dreadful type of abysmal language being present???? Wow! That's incredible, so obviously we should stamp out the language with an iron fist so that what, we can get the percentages up to 50-60%?
  
  Like my comment above, if gay folk are going to play, I'd hazard a guess they will play and not be particularly bothered by comments like Bastareuds... Look at many gay men n the media spotlight or in cabin crew and they tend to hold their appearance in high regard, are openly quite flamboyant and tend to display a lot of effeminate traits, there is nothing marginalising about them doing that themselves and appearing less 'macho' in the typical sense of the word than, idk, Bastareud et al...
  
  Archaic or not, being offended is subjective, I know a couple people who would not care one way or another about Bastareuds comment, they are gay, they are apparently less offended than a whole heard of you supposed straight guys on here... Equally im sure I could ask a homosexual ex neighbour who would be offended.. so two spectrums there, which do we listen to? The offended one yes? So again, you create a safe space for that person what about for the rest of the folk. Bastareud called an "enemy" at the time a fucking faggot... He did not say "faggots or homosexuals do not belong in the game"... Joe Marler called Samson Lee a 'gyspy boy', obviously I don't suppose Samson has much link to gypsies, so if Marler had correctly (and perhaps unpleasantly if you feel that way) said "oi traveller boy" is that again so wrong and offensive? Or is the real fight we want to have against the people that say "we shouldn't let travellers, niggers, Chinks, faggots, paddies, etc etc play rugby" because we all know that none of us stand for that..
  
  Or are we all too busy playing PC and showing how futuristic and modern we are...
• reality

  10:42 PM 15/01/2018

  So many PC comments. I'd say rather than anything Bastareaud said, the fact that the new PC religion is so evident and widespread is the sad thing here.
• rugbydump

  7:21 PM 15/01/2018

  In context, with the moaning to the ref, it sounded more like "... f*cking game", as in he's been doing that all game, the swinging arm tackles.
• coventrywasps

  6:55 PM 15/01/2018

  Moreover, it's asinine views such as homosexuality equating to emasculation that impedes rugby from being a completely inclusive game. Congrats for perpetuating those archaic and factually incorrect musings, moron
• coventrywasps

  6:51 PM 15/01/2018

  Oh my. Does "hugely macho" entail marginalising homosexuals? Statistically speaking, if we were to use wider demographics as a gauge, anywhere between 10 to 20% of male professional rugby players could identify as being gay. Just because they aren't open about it doesn't mean they aren't there.
• the_osprey

  6:36 PM 15/01/2018

  So you're saying, if you call a homosexual individual a "faggot" it is wrong as it is demeaning their homosexuality; thus homophobic.
  
  Yes
  
  But if you are calling a heterosexual individual a "faggot" you're simply demeaning the individual by suggesting that they are homosexual; which is better than the first option?
  
  No - I don't see how you could have interpreted my comment as such. I suggested that it may have been the first swear word that came into his head when he was angry, without any homosexual connotation at all. Of course, your interpretation might be the correct one.
• drg

  5:41 PM 15/01/2018

  Tom, what would you suggest if.you were to be in charge of a disciplinary for the punishment?
  
  I don't know if you've seen the chaos that's ensuing over the ocean in the US and actually in the UK universities with trans gender, safe spaces, etc etc... I don't believe in discrimination, however I do believe in the freedoms of speech and the right for someone like Bastareud to make himself look silly... I don't believe punishing someone for a discriminatory comment which was NOT said in a discriminatory fashion is right... Coventry wasps, don't worry, I'm not offended, once again you're showing your passion for punishing people on what ifs again..
• coventrywasps

  3:22 PM 15/01/2018

  Sorry, not "examples", I should have put: "dated and sophomoric suppositions".
• coventrywasps

  3:17 PM 15/01/2018

  Tom C that is. DrG on the other hand... way off the mark and, as usual, extreme and melodramatic with his examples...the lady doth protest too much, methinks
• halina

  3:12 PM 15/01/2018

  OMG speaking as a 64 yr old female, never played rugby but love watching it, I personally do not care what is said on the pitch as long as a good game is going on, comentators were over reacting at the time (as they always do) it is a very physical game , much more than years ago, and language is excesive, who cares, watch the game enjoy the rugby, ignore the words,and comentators over reacting, love the game not the words, can't see the problem. Stop acting like football divas
• coventrywasps

  3:11 PM 15/01/2018

  spot on
• colombes

  2:17 PM 15/01/2018

  I'm pretty sure Bastareaud is very far from our sociologic debate "how an homophobic insult on a rugby can be a reflect of the society behaviors?"
  
  From our sofa, it's quite easy to judge a player who launched this tantrum after 79 minutes of tackles, shocks and mauls. Do we really expect him saying "Bloody coward! i challenge you in singular combat at dawn" than an approximative and violent "Come after! faggot"?
  
  I'm pretty sure the commission will severely sanction Bastareaud for that, to make an example as they love to make example with french players ;) Then, Bastareaud will wonder why there was never a mic when the word "nigger" was launched at him
• tb8

  1:49 PM 15/01/2018

  So you're saying, if you call a homosexual individual a "faggot" it is wrong as it is demeaning their homosexuality; thus homophobic. But if you are calling a heterosexual individual a "faggot" you're simply demeaning the individual by suggesting that they are homosexual; which is better than the first option?
  Both are as bad as each other as both reduce the term "faggot" into a derogatory term against homosexuality. Both are homophobic acts. So what "feels sort of nothingy" to you feels like hate towards some; hate towards their sexuality.
  I agree with Paul Williams, this is a big opportunity to show the world that there is no place for hate mirroring behaviour in Rugby.
• drg

  1:42 PM 15/01/2018

  I didn't say you couldn't be offended on behalf of another, however it's somewhat pointless... Especially if perhaps most others would brush it off...
  
  If a man stated "women are bitches" do you think women would be offended particularly? Personally I think most women would think "what an idiot"...yet, you can bet your boots some big jowly twat would stand up and demand an immediate apology for an absolutely reprehensible comment blubber blabber blah blah...
  
  As many have said, if Negri is not actually gay, then this is merely words... Which actually makes it as much the same as a haircut comment... If someone called me a ginger faggot (when neither ginger nor gay) then I'd assume I've done something to upset them and they are racking their brains for an insult... However if I was an openly gay rugby player and someone yelled "tackle that faggot" then yeh, I can see how it could be deemed somewhat hurtful.
  
  My main point is whilst we all get all caught up in hurting people's feelings, we create a new barrier that one should not cross... So as I said, racism is a no no, homophobia, so what is next? Why shouldn't a ginger person be defended by a rugby court/crowd if he gets called ginger nuts or something such as that... "Catch the sheep shagger" now the entire Welsh the team is offended, so more bans...letting this be dealt with by teams and the individuals (with their apologies) is a demonstration of maturity on how one has easy access to call someone a nigger or a faggot or whatever, but chooses not to on 99% of the occasions... Start policing it and you remove free speech... Free speech is better policed by society in a positive way such as "come on Bastareud you're better than those insults - grow up" rather than, "if I was gay and came from a long lineage of gay folk, I'd be so upset that I'd never look at rugby ever again and I'd never want to play it or let my gay dog play with a rugby ball unless Bastareud is banned for life and left destitute"...
• mightyrubble

  12:21 PM 15/01/2018

  One man calls another fucking gay, the other responds by calling the first fucking faggott, and this after a bit of pushing and shoving in a hugely macho contact sport where people smash their bodies into each other. Frankly, what's the big deal? Firstly, it should be pointed out that there is nothing homophobic about the insults. This is a macho sport and the use of homosexuality as an insult is done to question the other person's masculinity. It's no different to calling them a girl or a little girl's blouse. This in no way demonstrates actual homophobia or prejudice. Unlike calling a black man a nigger in such a situation which is to target him over his skin colour. But when it comes down to it, it's all just name calling and the only issue here is that it was caught on mic -- as this video proves because while everyone heard Bastareaud call Negri a faggott, almost everyone has missed Negri first calling Bastareaud gay and this headline highlights Bastareaud's "homophobic slur" rather than saying "rugby players exchange homophobic slurs" -- thus demonstrating the entire polemic is entirely caused by one player being closer to the ref's mic than the other.
• 12:04 PM 15/01/2018

  There is very definitely a quite possibly Zimbabwean accent uttering the words "fucking gay" before Bastareaud gets annoyed.
• drg

  11:22 AM 15/01/2018

  Also, the comedian also does a "gay it's the new straight" sketch... Kind of amusing for those that aren't offended..
• drg

  11:21 AM 15/01/2018

  That is precisely the issue, you as a heterosexual are being offended on behalf of a gay person...
  
  My point of the "I'd hazard a guess" comment was not to make an incorrect statement that gay people don't belong in the sport, it was to highlight the fact that rugby is a certain type of sport that attracts a certain type of person, generally speaking that person is not particularly offended by much on a whole...of course I may be incorrect, however 'banter' is a big aspect in a predominantly male occupied area and generally speaking guys tend to put up with a lot of comments about haircuts, dress sense, aspects of all life... Of course, comparing a bad haircut insult to a homophobic slur is slightly chalk and cheese, however I think there is a valid point that generally speaking shit is just said...
  
  I also think Osprey makes a very valid point below regarding the 'n word'... I think the same applies here.. Petersam also makes a valid point regarding language barrier, non English speakers who work on English building sites tend to pick up horrendous language that they will openly use in front of any person, men/women etc, however in their own tongue they wouldn't use that language in front of women at all...
  
  Finally, whilst I agree this isn't a golden moment in rugby terms, it's also a nothing moment that is growing by the minute.. unnecessarily.. the issue is where do you draw the line... Racism - wrong, homophobia - wrong, transphobia..do we have genetic males playing female rugby yet? Are jokes about hair colour to be banned? Inside leg length? Hair cuts? I just think rather than kicking up a giant "I'm offended" storm, people should recognise that the majority of players don't say this sort of thing and that it was stupid...end of story..
  
  See the YouTube link below... Being offended is not the end of the world...
• colombes

  9:23 AM 15/01/2018

  It was quite awkward to hear Bastareaud launches an insult in english, i guess he learned some from his Toulon teammates.
  If he really meant his words, it should be severely punished. If not, it seems a cheap polemic.
  
  Don't really get what Negri said... But did he say "fucking gay" to Bastareaud at 0:16?
  Isn't it more serious regarding his mother tongue?
  
  Ps: Gareth Thomas must thinks there is a lot to do in rugby mentality...
• oliver

  9:23 AM 15/01/2018

  I agree generally. Actually my comment below kind of makes the same point, I hadn't read your post.
  
  However, I feel words like "faggot" or "shit" have the same weight in french/german/english/most european languages. (my mother is german and I grew up in a french/german family).
  If anything I think "shit" has less weight in english because of the US way of saying "this shit" to mean "this thing". Whereas in german or french it's always negative.
• rugbydump

  8:55 AM 15/01/2018

  Agreed
• oliver

  8:46 AM 15/01/2018

  oh man Italians are so good at riling us Frenchies up! The way Negri kinda takes Bastareaud in his arms, then pushes him and simply turns away is just infuriating.... Stronzo!! ;-)
  
  The other thing I meant to say is Bastareaud is not swearing in his mother tongue, things might come out awkward. Like when he says "come after". That doesn't excuse him but it should be taken into consideration, IMO.
• finedisregard

  1:11 AM 15/01/2018

  Not nice.
  
  Still rugby people now seem to be constantly outraged. There was a time when there was no tackle, collision, or off the ball event that was met with more than shrugged shoulders.
  
  Every high tackle and idiotic heat-of-the moment statement is not a big deal.
• drg

  10:27 PM 14/01/2018

  https://youtu.be/ceS_jkKjIgo
• the_osprey

  10:16 PM 14/01/2018

  It would be very unlikely that someone would use the N word to someone who didn't have the relevant characteristic. So that would be awful in pretty much every instance. All I'm saying is that it's possible that Bastareaud might have used the 'F' word as flippantly as any other swear word, without trying to give it any extra meaning around homosexuality. I might be wrong, of course. But, if I'm right, it sort of feels like a witch hunt because he used the 'wrong swear word'. Anyway, in either case it seems that Bastareaud was being a bit of a hot-headed prick at the time. And when I say 'prick', I don't mean any particular offence towards males or male genitals.
• getitout

  9:00 PM 14/01/2018

  If someone used the N word like that would you still feel this way? Just an old 'naughty' word slipping out?
• drg

  8:38 PM 14/01/2018

  Problem with this is that there will be some straight person watching the game who will doth their beige cardigan, pick up their clip board and make a phone call about how offensive they found that word because "if they were gay" it would be really upsetting....
  
  Meanwhile, someone like Nigel Owens may be sitting there thinking "bastareud grow up you idiot"...
  
  I don't condone foul language on the pitch but as you said, some people will say anything, I've heard 'mum jokes' around the field ranging from someone mentioning what they 'did' to another person's mum, to following up comments with "that's what your mum said"... Are these any more acceptable? Perhaps someone lost their mother recently... I just think a lot of these are nothing words that really shouldn't be given the air time they are given.
  
  I know somewhere there will be a gay person offended, or perhaps even a gay person who may decide they won't take up rugby as a sport due to this, but I'd hazard a guess that the majority of those, probably wouldn't get into rugby in the first place..
  
  However considering the borderline homosexual and (from what I've heard) well past the line of homosexuality stuff that can happen at grass roots (and who knows about pro stuff) I'd say all this is is hot air...
  
  However covering your last sentence "the characteristic it was meant to demean", was Samson Lee of the 'gypsy' background or merely a traveller background? If you mention someone's ginger hair "that effing ginger **** did it?" Is that something that requires intervention, if Negri was gay and Bastareud said "f***ing gay" is that demeaning? Or are we banning the use of descriptions (however distasteful)... I remember Flannery calling Thompson a "fat c**t", rather rude towards waistline challenged folk and perhaps even females... Should we get the feminists involved? Or just blow the whistle, penalty for foul language and get on with the game?
• the_osprey

  7:31 PM 14/01/2018

  Is Negri actually gay? If so and Bastareaud knew this, obviously this is terrible. If not, I wouldn't necessarily call this homophobic. Feels sort of nothingy - when someone's angry any old 'naughty' word could come out and I don't see why 'faggot' is worse than any other swear word when used towards someone who doesn't have the characteristic it is meant to demean.