Mon 27 Aug 2018 | 10:13

Sergio Parisse's Top 14 season starts off with a perplexing red card

30 Comments

• drg

  4:09 PM 04/09/2018

  So, I believe we're on the same page regarding the want in less injuries, so that's something.
  
  The part that massively confuses me, is your mention of archaic laws being to blame. As I already said, the game of old wouldn't have even looked into this and I'm not talking about the era of that terribly embarrassing sloppy haka being performed by the guys with 70's taches, I'm talking about less than 10 years ago, could even be talking 5 years ago or even less. The overzealous policing is a relatively new thing, with the introduction of ridiculous laws.
  
  The referee was clearly not hamstrung. The fact the card was rescinded suggests it's a massive referee cock up for one.
  
  The only pro-hamstrung referee argument that can be used around the game is in regards of NEW laws to try and reduce head injuries, player safety etc, the referee felt he had no other option. Which actually if you listen to referees over the last 12 odd months, the words "My hands are tied" or "I have no other options" spoken in a way that seems to suggest 'yeh guys, it's shitty I know, sorry' seem to be used a lot, lot, more.
  
  My example of the scrum is a terrible example, not an excellent one. How long did those changes take until we have what we see today which is a somewhat relatively stable scrum platform? I've lost count as to how many changes there were until they got it "right":
  1. ready, engage
  2. ready, set, engage.
  3. crouch, touch, engage
  4. crouch, touch, pause, engage
  etc onto whatever it is today (I may have made up a few of those, but like I said, I've lost count)...and surprise surprise the law that would have made a huge difference would be to FORCE hookers to actually hook for the ball... but that somehow got missed.
  
  I'd argue that having seen two light players connect in exactly the same fashion as this and seeing one of them get KO'd, that my Parra v Faf example would ring true...
  
  The solution examples you give are good ones, but you won't stop big fast backs, or back rows.
• andinov

  12:49 AM 04/09/2018

  "Or is this one of these millennial "we love freedoms of speech unless it hurts our feelings" sort of situations you're trying to drum up? "
  
  This is hilarious. What are you on about man
• andinov

  12:47 AM 04/09/2018

  Alright settle down there DrG and a little less of the sarcastic rants please. I was just highlighting that the whole law vs rule thing is a pointless argument of semantics and unnecessary. You seem to like bringing it up and I think it adds little.
  
  "issue with today's game" - The issue is that the weight and speed of the game have both increased in the last 20 years. At the professional level (thank you finedisregard), in every other game we are seeing players having to come off the pitch with significant injuries. I see this as a failure of the rules to protect the players and by extension a failure of rules to keep pace with the changing player profile.
  
  The scrum is an excellent example of this being done successfully. There were serious concerns at the time over player safety, the rules were changed and by in large the feeling is that things have improved in that context.
  
  "THIS incident" - As I said in my initial comment, it shows how the refs are hamstrung with the rule book. They're being blamed for instances like the above
  
  "tackler who came flying in with shitty technique" - correct
  "Had this been the likes of Parra on Faf der Klerk" - You see, no it wouldn't because by the mere fact that they are lighter, the forces are reduced and damage from the injury is also far less. This is closer to what the game was like.
  
  " suggest is the ACTUAL problem" - Just to answer your question; Parisse received this card which is UNFAIR based on the fact that I don't think he could have done anything any differently.
  
  "And what is your solution?" - The answer is that I don't know, I too have suggestions like yours above but still none are totally acceptable. I can give an example of the opposite though. The increased use of substitutes has allowed teams to get away with heavier front rowers before substituting them at 50 min, why not reverse that allowing for fitter, lighter front roweres. I have others if people are interested but as I said, none are totally acceptable.
• andinov

  12:28 AM 04/09/2018

  "The concussion issue to me seems related to the top 1% of players" - This in fairness is an excellent point that I hadn't considered. Certainly where I am I think you see a lot less injuries compared to what we see on the TV screen, probably because the game is certainly slower and probably lighter in certain cases.
• drg

  3:07 PM 31/08/2018

  It rubs off I guess.
  
  Well, I googled the term millennial and it appears I am a millennial... So I've inadvertently tied myself into that ..
  
  I agree it was very YouTubey of me, I apologise..
  
  I do find though that talking about players height, speed, weight in a capacity where either their downfalls (being heavy) or their merits (being quick) are something that should be curbed or adjusted or that the game should adjust because of them to be very non inclusive, which is precisely what the drive is for the game..to be inclusive.
  
  Imagine when Lomu came on the scene saying "nah mate, you're too fast and big to play, you could hurt somebody!"
  
  Recent video with Warburton talking about game numbers is probably the most sensible option I can see, and even that has its flaws, but at least it ties into Finedisregards point about the 1% and 99%. The laws of the game won't need to be touched in that manner if you adjust the playing requirements for the top level.
• jimmy23

  11:44 AM 31/08/2018

  DrG
  
  Whilst I agree with what you're saying here, and generally have in the past. I feel the need to point out that moaning about Millenials is about as Youtube-ish as things get...
• drg

  12:16 PM 30/08/2018

  https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/sergio-parisse-red-card-cleared-15087547
  
  Article I mentioned.
• drg

  12:14 PM 30/08/2018

  I had to have a Google search for the info, but apparently the referee issued a statement himself saying he was incorrect? I'll try and find the link to what I read.
  
  I think Brazo made a statement saying it was his own fault and I think he made some sort of social media post about how he hopes Parisse doesn't get many or any weeks ban.
  
  Yeh totally agree with the comment from Parisse, he definitely showed some class with it! A lot of people would have gone bananas. I wonder if he's been having some sort of emotional counselling, or had a psychologist in his ear. In the past you could really see the frustrations take hold of him, I know it's one game in, but he looked like he wanted to swing at something before he sat down then stopped himself... Maybe he's turned a leaf.
• finedisregard

  11:25 AM 30/08/2018

  Hi Andinov,
  The game in the mid 90's is completely unrecognizable compared to today. There is not another sport that I know of that has changed so completely in such a short period of time. Cards, substitutions, lineouts, scrums, training methods, refereeing, and even player culture are extremely different and not all better compared to our recent past.
  
  The concussion issue to me seems related to the top 1% of players. The Laws should not be centered around the 1% that play for paycheck and spectacle, but for the 99% that play for fun.
  
  For the 99% concussions and massive player physiques is not a problem. If it's not a problem for the 99% then it does not to be fixed. This incident with Parisse is an example of a referee creating something from nothing.
  
  What is important is amateur players having fun, not professionals having long careers. I wish we still played with Laws from '96 or so. The game was more fun.
• pickay

  11:22 AM 30/08/2018

  OK that's news to me, but yeah good to hear the red has been rescinded, so maybe there is still hope for the future of rugby after all?!!
  
  And I am with Colombes here: As much as I was surprised to see the ref going for a red card, I was probably even more surprised about Parisse's statement, saying "[...] I respect the referee's decision." Don't think I've ever heard him say anything even remotely close to that. Could it be a first for him?
• drg

  3:15 AM 30/08/2018

  I've been glad to read his red card has been rescinded, it irritates me that this situation could ever be deemed a red card anyway! It's a sad move in the rugby direction when a referee makes a mistake to that magnitude with all the information at hand.
  
  French referees have had a hand in some awful decisions over the years, but equally we've seen poor decisions from other referees, including a French favourite south African referee.. (takes shelter)..so I don't think it's fair (as you said) to blame certain officials for the way the game is going.. we all have a hand in that!
• drg

  3:05 AM 30/08/2018

  Oh good job, so your argument is that because the laws of old don't accommodate hulks running at pace we have head traumas...
  
  Firstly congrats on graduating from YouTube to RD, generally we don't need to trade insults here, it's generally a more calm less twatty sort of place, but you know, you'll grow up one day I'm sure.
  
  Secondly, what exactly about the laws of old are causing such an issue with today's game? Laws of old didn't mention anything about height weight speed restrictions? Or is this one of these millennial "we love freedoms of speech unless it hurts our feelings" sort of situations you're trying to drum up? Inclusion for everyone, just not you, you and you...
  
  I mean, what have we seen over the years?
  Scrum collapses, cure? Well we've seen vast law changes around the scrums, so I guess that's kind of more or less sorted those out.
  Lineout changes, these have mixed things up and complicated matters, I'm a fan of the changes, I think lifting is great, naturally it's increased the danger of the game, but hey..
  Player safety concerns, ok cure? Introduction of tighter restrictions around spear tackles, height of tackles, violence (punches and the like), rucking has been removed (leading to a direct increase in slow ball!).
  
  So...I fail to see how THIS incident, has anything to do with past laws or lack of changes??
  
  And no, in days gone by, referees rarely carded a ball carrier over an injury to a tackler who came flying in with shitty technique... Had this been the likes of Parra on Faf der Klerk, you're talking 77kg Vs 80kg, the outcome of the collision would be the same...
  
  So, what do you suggest is the ACTUAL problem then? Parisse received this card which is fair/unfair (delete as applicable) based on the fact that ________ (fill in the blank). And what is your solution? Are we suggesting the introduction of weight class rugby? Bantum-heavyweight? Dietary restrictions? Wrapping of children's feet? Voodoo dances?
• andinov

  12:35 AM 30/08/2018

  finedisregard/ drg
  
  By in large, with only a few exceptions, the rules that we play with today are the same as they were in the mid-90s when rugby entered the professional era.
  
  We have also seen in the same time span is an increase in both the speed and weight of the game.
  
  We are witnessing concussions and injuries at an unprecedented rate and it is not down to soft players and bad refereeing decisions. It's down to a set of rules that have been unable to keep pace with the modernisation of the game.
  
  "The underlying problem is the professional age." - Correct, but I don't think there's any going back to the amateur era now.
  
  "law Vs rules thing" - (facepalm) You're such a loser
  
  "Days gone by" - In days gone by, referees didn't see this happening because it didn't exist. There wern't 105kg players running into 112kg at the pace these guys are doing it. That's the problem.
• colombes

  4:31 PM 29/08/2018

  Wrong decision here.
  
  Some top 14 fans would say Parisse is not appreciated by the french ref corpse, especially for his constant borderline talk.
• colombes

  4:29 PM 29/08/2018

  As long as i don't agree with this decision, your comment generalizing on the french refs is just wrong and exaggerated.
  
  Garces, for example, is certainly the most regular and clever referee around
  But maybe you prefer Nigel Owens hometown decisions or shiny punchlines, i don't.
• ruckinmaul

  4:16 PM 29/08/2018

  The more I watch the replay, the more I see the tackler put his face at Parisse arm, not the other way around. French officials are the most disgrace officials in world rugby. They are killing this game with shit referring.
• breakaway

  1:42 AM 29/08/2018

  I completely agree.
• anton

  8:10 PM 28/08/2018

  Fact
• gonzoman

  6:09 PM 28/08/2018

  They should allow citing commissioners to cite poor tackling technique, and 'suspend' players until they learn to tackle properly. Brazo could certainly do with a couple weeks of remedial training, based on the clip!
  
  Seriously though, that might have a bigger impact on player safety...
• drg

  3:38 AM 28/08/2018

  I don't mind cards but I'm with Finedisregard, wtf are you on about 'archaic rule structure'??
  
  I'm baffled by what you're on about, I'm even overlooking the usual law Vs rules thing, what archaic structure are you on about?
  
  Days gone by referees would have not even bothered to blow the whistle for this, let alone penalise or card anyone...
• finedisregard

  2:47 AM 28/08/2018

  Archaic? They're practically brand new. Red and yellow cards are a RESULT of the professional age and have only been around for about 20 years.
  
  The problem is the overzealous referee and red and yellow cards. The underlying problem is the professional age.
• andinov

  2:21 AM 28/08/2018

  This has nothing to do with Parisse (how could he have acted any differently), or with the referee (shoulder vs chin, hard to ignore that).
  
  Some blame can be levelled at Brazo for coming in so high.
  
  But the majority of the blame lies with an archaic rule structure being applied to a game in the professional era.
• the_osprey

  6:03 PM 27/08/2018

  Couldn't agree more. I have no interest in watching this rubbish
• thedoctor

  5:00 PM 27/08/2018

  This is some next level BS
• 10stonenumber10

  1:17 PM 27/08/2018

  Maybe that is why he was carded. Knocked out by someone out dressed in pink with white boots must have been humiliating for Brazo.
• finedisregard

  12:47 PM 27/08/2018

  Usually I would be very sympathetic. But one cannot say "Rugby has gone lame!" while wearing pink kit and white shoes.
  
  Sergio painted himself into a corner on this one.
• 45678

  12:37 PM 27/08/2018

  The only crime committed here is the the Stade Francais kit
• drg

  12:27 PM 27/08/2018

  I'd have packed up my shit and not even bothered getting changed and just walked right out of the stadium and back home. That would be it for me.
  
  There are bad cards, unfortunate cards, but this was clear, clear pictures, clear angles, if rugby is honestly heading this way then I'd have no more part in it...
• 10stonenumber10

  11:48 AM 27/08/2018

  French officials hate Parisse
• pickay

  10:38 AM 27/08/2018

  Wow. Just wow. He is holding his arm straight down along his side while the other bloke runs into him. *headshakeheadshakeheadshake*
  In order to avoid this red card, he would have had to remove his arm from his body. Although then he would probably have gotten a red for a shoulder charge instead...