Sat 16 Mar 2013 | 08:20

Wales thrash England by record score to retain Six Nations title

59 Comments

• brawnybalboa

  2:49 AM 23/03/2013

  Ferris 'if available' at lock? Ferris is a 6 not a lock.
• stroudos

  12:04 PM 21/03/2013

  We usually make our scrumhalf captain - best way to keep him on the pitch.
• facepalm

  10:34 PM 20/03/2013

  Vunipola has already proved he's better than Haskell at Wasps.
• facepalm

  10:30 PM 20/03/2013

  I don't understand your point.
  
  "when was the last time England actually beat Australia ." In 2010.
  "Wales have beat Australia" Yes, last time in 2008.
  
  Have I missed something?
• facepalm

  10:22 PM 20/03/2013

  Great runner of the ball, but drops off tackles and drops off rucks. The commentators seem to have a love affair with him so even when he plays shockingly he's credited as world class. Sorry, but he's not for me.
• thetruth

  2:16 PM 20/03/2013

  surely if Ashton is in the starting lineup this summer that is a good thing, as it means he wasn't selected for The Lions!
• stroudos

  1:04 PM 20/03/2013

  He's a poor man's Dimitri Szarzewski.
• 8:15 PM 19/03/2013

  Is it me or does Richard Hibbard, the Welsh hooker, look like Ma'a Nonu's long lost albino twin?
• brawnybalboa

  7:52 PM 19/03/2013

  Cheers! To be honest I can see the Grandslam decider being used for player selection in very much the same way as the Munster v Ospreys Heineken Cup Quarterfinal in 2009. That day 15 (of 37) lions tourists O'Connell and Ryan Jones met as the two favourites for lions captaincy. Players like Quinlan and Earls played themselves into Lions contention, and Ryan Jones initially was not selected.
  
  In the same manner Robshaw may have lost his captaincy to Warburton, Tipuric may have played himself into the Lions. Welsh players such as Warburton, AW Jones, Phillips, Roberts and Halfpenny likely overtook their English counterparts in the Lions pecking order, whilst players such as Jenkins and Jones may have pushed Cole and Marler out of the tour party all together.
  
  I can see 3 English exiles as dark horses for the tournament: Wilkinson (especially with the lack of options at 10), Sheridan and Armitage.
• stroudos

  5:28 PM 19/03/2013

  A few times in the past year Wales have used North very effectively as a strike runner off set pieces. I think someone on here was talking about playing him at centre- don't know what his passing's like but as a crashball option might not be a bad idea.
  
  Haven't seen Cuthbert play that role but something tells me he'd be very predictable.
• stroudos

  5:19 PM 19/03/2013

  I believe I was the one criticsing Cuthbert. Don't know about his defence (thought it was OK actually?). And I take nothing away from his twoi tries v England, which were well taken. If you're looking for someone to run hard and straight and guarateed to get over the whitewash from
• stroudos

  12:17 PM 19/03/2013

  Yes!! Someone who recognises the phenomenal talent of Corbisiero! Most under-rated player ever. England's scrum is a totally different proposition when he plays. A real shame he was unavailable.
  
  Nice to see a sensible opinion on Tuilagi too.
• yster7

  11:31 AM 19/03/2013

  OMG so many scrum experts on here. England should start recruiting scrum coaches from this site!
  Please could the English stop bitching about the referee and the scrums. Jesus guys, man up! If any of you have ever played rugby before you should know that you play according to the referee ie. You push the limits of what you'll get away with and keep at it. It's not Wales' fault that the English weren't street smart enough to compete with them. And anyway, has anyone ever seen a fairly contested scrum, ever? I don't think it exists.
  Wales were by far the best team on the pitch and deserved to win! Too many English players exposed, Ashton especially! Rugby league boy that can't tackle - classic! And we saw the old boring English game plan of kick, kick and kick some more make a return... Shocking!
  Well done to Wales! The only northern hemisphere team I support as I'm south african. And the reason for that is because Wales likes to "move it" and score tries!
• fatprop

  4:22 PM 18/03/2013

  Didnt realise when I wrote it so I will now say that he is the best northern hemisphere winger I clearly do not believe he is better than gear savea ranger jane habana and Jp Peterson
  But I dont rate north as high as most commentators or pundits
• rugbydump

  3:35 PM 18/03/2013

  The highlights have now been updated with a more comprehensive report
• xfijix

  11:56 AM 18/03/2013

  was this rugby ? ... looked like soccer lol kidding good job wales
• guy

  9:39 AM 18/03/2013

  I thought the tackler can come in froma any side as long as the ruck is not (properly) formed. Since there is no ruck as long as it's not formed, there is no gate either.
• drg

  3:48 AM 18/03/2013

  Stroudos, perhaps its the hype that has surrounded them, but I have found both North and Cuthbert to appear very average. Maybe they've been chaperoned and just haven't had the space, but there was talk of them being like a NH version of a Lomu etc, I certainly have seen very little evidence of their impact.
  
  I think even Bananaman made a bigger impact than them..
• drg

  3:47 AM 18/03/2013

  Not sure whether your comment carries much credit Fatprop... especially as you appear to not know which hemisphere is which :P
• drg

  3:45 AM 18/03/2013

  *shakes head* sigh, so many games lost because of our mouthy scrum half...
  
  I wonder if you can get a red card for hitting your own player?
• brawnybalboa

  3:22 AM 18/03/2013

  Jumping onto the Lions squad selection bandwagon, here are my squad of 35 for the tour (37 were initially selected for the last tour):
  
  Loosehead: Gethin Jenkins & Cian Healy
  Hooker: Richard Hibbard, Rory Best & Tom Youngs
  Tighthead: Adam Jones & Euan Murray
  Lock: Alun-Wyn Jones, Joe Launchbury, Jim Hamilton & Ian Evans
  Blindside Flanker: Sean O'Brien, Chris Robshaw
  Openside Flanker: Sam Warburton, Justin Tipuric
  Number 8: Toby Falatau, Jamie Heaslip & Ryan Jones (Utility player)
  
  Scrum Half: Mike Phillips, Ben Youngs & Greg Laidlaw (Utility player)
  Outside Half: Owen Farrell, Jonny Sexton
  Centre: Jamie Roberts, Manu Tuilagi, Brian O'Driscoll, Jonathan Davies & Billy Twelvetrees
  Wing: George North, Tim Visser & Alex Cuthbert
  Fullback: Lee Halfpenny (Utility player), Rob Kearney, Stuart Hogg (Utility player) & Alex Goode (Utility player)
  
  15 Welsh, 8 English, 7 Irish, 5 Scots.
  
  I have listed 5 utility players in the squad. The reason for this is that on tour, versatile players are useful. We saw Nathan Hines cover the back 5 in the scrum on the last tour, and James Hook as a utility back.
  
  Despite just missing out on the championship, England have a low number as there is a logjam at certain positions. At prop, Jenkins and Jones are currently in great form, and in addition to stand out performers Euan Murray and Cian Healey would leave no room for English props. In the back row, the English have lacked a specialist 8 since Morgan got injured. Robshaw deserves to go, but is not a pure 7. Tipuric and Warbuton are the only pure 7's so have to go. O'Brien is destructive as a ball carrier so must go as a 6. In the back 3, Hogg, Halfpenny, Goode, Kearney and North are all in form. Cuthbert and Visser will likely go as they have a knack of scoring.
  
  Players in contention if healthy: Corbisiero (E), O'Connell (I), Gray (S), Lydiate (W), Bowe (I)
• brawnybalboa

  2:44 AM 18/03/2013

  I feel the need to address some of the points that many England fans feel compelled to complaining about:
  
  Walsh and his refereeing:
  
  At the end of the day, both teams have people analysing the opposition prior to each game. In the same vein the Welsh this year analysed how the referee interprets the game. Walsh was consistent with his refereeing, Wales just did their homework. In regards to the scrum, once a team is in the ascendency, the referee will likely award the stronger scrum penalties. Wales decimated a few English scrummages, and from there on in the dye was cast. Not necessarily correct, but it is how the game is going.
  
  Adam Jones's scrummaging technique:
  Over the course of the six nations, Jones and Hibbard have targeted the opposition hooker with the aim to make him slip his binds with the loosehead, and splinter the opposition scrum. This is why it looks like Jones is at a 45 degree angle when the scrum breaks down. The hooker has simply lost his bind with the loosehead, and Jones has gone into the gap as the loosehead is no longer directly infront of him. Hence why when the scrums have broken down in the past few games for Wales, the entire welsh tight 5 is still bound, yet the opposition isn't.
  
  Ken Owens offside at ruck for first try:
  Assuming that Ken Owens was offside and Wales benefitted from a try, think about Vunipola being offside for Tuilagi's try against France. These things even themselves out.
  
  It is such a shame that many English fans cannot lose with grace. No team is unbeatable, and all players can have a bad day. On Saturday we finally saw a full 80 minutes of good quality rugby from Wales (first time in a long time). Wales dominated the collision, set piece and maintained over 60% possession. Wales broke the gainline 42 times to Englands 19, Wales missed 7 tackles to Englands 17. England squandered two golden overlaps, whilst Wales were clinical and scored two crackers.
  
  Unlucky England, well done Wales
• fatprop

  11:45 PM 17/03/2013

  Interesting point of view I personally feel he is actual the best winger I the southern hemisphere I actually think its better than george north. Just in the right place every time to score a try. One good thing is atleast we have some talent on the wings to pick from.
• stroudos

  11:38 PM 17/03/2013

  Agree with the Adam Jones comment. He was immense, as always. I have to say though, I do not think he'd have had so much success against a fit Alex Corbisiero.
  
• stroudos

  11:27 PM 17/03/2013

  Walsh made a couple of questionable decisions on the early scrums. Dan Cole made the classic mistake of actually questioning them.
  
  From what I saw, Cole seemed to whingeing at Walsh throughout the entire match. When you do that, unfortunately the ref is going to give the benefit of the doubt to the opposition. I'm not sure it's done consciously or not, but personally I have no problem with it and I hope the pattern continues until players learn not to bitch and moan at the officials like their roundball fetishist cousins.
• stroudos

  11:19 PM 17/03/2013

  Cuthbert's not even that good. Sorry if that sounds churlish after yesterday, but while he excels at catching a soft pass and sprinting over the line, he offers very little else. But yeah, sometimes that's enough anyway!
• stroudos

  11:17 PM 17/03/2013

  I'll tell you why Walsh gave so many 50-50 scrum decision to Wales: because Dan Cole kept bitching and moaning at him for the entire game.
  
  Right or wrong, whatever level of the game, if you get on the ref's case like that he's going to give the benefit of doubt to the other team. In an area of the game where there's so much subjectivity involved you just can't afford to put him in that position.
• upthelowend

  8:02 PM 17/03/2013

  Whilst its true that he's no master of the breakdown, he's by no means bad at it, he just adds a completely different attacking angle which no other player that ive seen, so granted theres an out and out 7 (which robshaw seems to be getting to) playing along side him i shouldn't think its too much of a problem in that regard. Regardless of either of our opinions, it speaks volumes that Lancaster chose him to start given how little playing time he's had since he came back, he may not have the ability to turn the ball over but i put him in that category of 'freak of nature' for some of the things he's pulled off over the years.
• fatprop

  8:01 PM 17/03/2013

  Again I disagree about croft great player and is possibly the best 6 in the NH at his best.
  My england team
  15. Foden
  14. Wade
  13. Joseph
  12. Twelvetrees
  11. May
  10. Burns
  9. Care
  
  8. Morgan
  7. Robshaw
  6. Croft
  5.Launchbury
  4. Parling
  3. Cole
  2. Hartley
  1. Corbisiero
  
  
  16. Youngs
  17. Vunipola
  18. Wilson
  19. Lawes
  19. B Vunipola / Fraser
  20. Woods
  21. Care
  22. Farrell
  23. Banahan
  
  Reasons for my team very fast with Wade and May on either wing Foden also like a winger. Joseph can find little gaps my half backs play high and keep on the defensive line 12 can pass. My bench has all the power B vunipola and Banahan can play both centres and wing playing well
  Barritt could still get in and tuilagi but no ashton utterly uselss waste of space
• welshhero

  7:43 PM 17/03/2013

  I though Steve Walsh refed the game superbly. England were mentally and physically dominated!
  
  What England learned today was to Fear the Welsh. Roll on Twickenham 2015
• 7:36 PM 17/03/2013

  Let's be honest, if he thought that was happening in any game let alone where England are playing for a Grand Slam we would have all heard about it.
  
  Even if he thought one scrum went fine he would have still mentioned all the issues with the others.
  
  It's a bit early but I've not seen any criticism of his game from anybody involved in the match, any of the commentators or the "experts" involved in the Scrum V Forum afterwards (http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b01rjllz/Six_Nations_Rugby_2013_Forum_Red_Button_(16_03_13)/) although there are plenty from understandably disappointed fans.
  
  It's certainly not an english thing because if you put ANY other two teams into a match like that it's always an easy target.
  
  No referee is going to get 100% because they're as human as we are which means they make mistakes just like we do. We've all had decisions go our way which probably should and vice versa.
  
  As a player, irrelevant of what decision the referee has made that decision is a fact and won't change and it's not your job to correct them. You have your own job to do and if you don't do it you're putting your team at a disadvantage.
  
  In all honestly I was really worried when I found out Walsh was refereeing but I genuinely felt that he had a decent game.
  
  I think that as a Welsh rugby player but I also think it as a big rugby fan who likes watching exciting, well refereed rugby which ever teams are playing.
• upthelowend

  7:12 PM 17/03/2013

  Does no one remember that Croft just had his first start after breaking his neck?! He is out and out the most naturally talented back rower that England has to their disposal, at his best a world beater, but you can't say he's no longer good enough after one shoddy performance. Don't forget he's already been on a Lions tour and scored 2 tries in his first start for them against south africa. With regard to your other choices, agree about ashton and barritt, flood is certainly winding down but for the moment allows for a different style of play, marler hasnt been disastrous, nothing special but more stamina than vunipola, also i think corbisiero is gonna have long term trouble with this injury making him a tricky one. i have high hopes for b vunipola, hope thats what you were looking for (minus the rant about croft)
• 7:08 PM 17/03/2013

  It's possible that he did what you say, we have watched it twice (I'm sure nobody would blame us) but didn't pick that up on him saying that.
  
  I'm not doubting that he did say it as it's easy enough to miss something that brief but I do struggle to believe that if Moore had thought that Walsh's decision making was a "farce" that he would have only mentioned it once.
  
  If you know when it happened I'd be interested to watch it as it'll be interesting to hear the context it was said in?
  
  He does however say with about 5 minutes to go, and I'm quoting him directly here:
  "This whole sequence thing which has bedevilled this Six Nations is a farce. It's ridiculous. The sequence of calling makes no difference at all to what happens in the scrum".
  
  That's no criticism of Walsh but a criticism the current scrum sequence with I think most people would agree with.
  
  The only time I noticed him saying something almost negative about Walsh is the incident where he repeatedly had to tell the English front row to stand on his mark. I think he had to warn them three times?
  
  He does at many other scrums & breakdowns heavily criticise England for a lack of interest and praise Wales for their technical ability, tempo and heart.
  
  In reference to the pitch, as with any stadium with a roof it does retain water when the roof is closed. However both management teams knew that and chose to have a closed roof and damp pitch.
  
  It seems that both coaching teams had prepared as much as they could for it as there was relatively few incidents of slipping shown during the scrum.
  
  The WRU are considering fitting an artificial pitch over the next 12 months so those issues could be replaced by others.
• lucius

  7:02 PM 17/03/2013

  No problem about being like this. It's a game and I know there are plenty of people liking this defeat... just read all the posts on rugbydump. England simply get what they gave
• lucius

  6:59 PM 17/03/2013

  Ah ah, don't cry boy, just sit and cool down a bit. Even big boys in white could loose a game and a tournament this way...
• matt

  6:42 PM 17/03/2013

  You have successfully written a really long, very boring and partially incomprehensible rant about a subject almost completely unconnected to the OP. But well done on your history, I am very glad you shared that with us.
• upthelowend

  6:42 PM 17/03/2013

  If you think Croft is an average player, whoever you are, wherever you come from, you're clearly at least partially brain dead. However I have to agree with the Ashton thing, but I do have fears that somehow, we'll see him in the starting lineup once again come the summer.
• reality

  4:06 PM 17/03/2013

  Am I the only one not convinced by either England or Wales? In England's case, if you take away their victory over the All Blacks, what have they done? In Wales's case, if you take away their victory over England, what have they done? We see this every second year with Wales: they win the Six Nations, suddenly they're the best team in the world and are going to beat the All Blacks and set the world alight, and then they get brought back to reality very quickly. If this is going to be a Welsh and English-heavy Lions tour, then I'm not actually at all confident that they'll win. Wales played an Australia team in disarray a bunch of times last year and lost every time.
  
  Having said that though, it's not like Ireland or Scotland offer anything better.
• 3:21 PM 17/03/2013

  To be honest I agree with everything you say.
  
  On the most basic level it was the difference between playing to the rule book and playing to the referee's interpretation of the rule book which is what Wales did.
  
  I know that the referees receive guidance on how to interpret the rules by the IRB but if you have 50 different international referees receiving the same guidance then you're going to end up with different interpretations of that guidance.
  
  There isn't a team on the planet who understands that more than the All Blacks and that is one of the reasons that they are so good.
  
  I'm really not a fan of Walsh but I'd be amazed if he was judging decisions on the experience of the players although I do I think much of it was down to behaviour.
  
  You only had to look at the behaviour of both packs to see the difference, the Welsh pack always looked confident, always looked like they deserved to be winning the decisions and they were vocal about the where they believed England were going wrong.
  
  I haven't referred but that combined with the fact that the England didn't seem to gain ascendency once just means they read and controlled Walsh better.
  
  Again, I'm not a forward but from the people I know who are, including English players, they Wales just played the way that good packs do, they played that they were in and learnt from the opposition and officials as they played.
  
  Some people call it "the dark arts" but I just think of it as common sense.
• drg

  3:01 PM 17/03/2013

  Actually now you mention it luke, i did notice Wales not taking the hit a couple times, and England getting penalised. One in particular, England hit Wales and Wales went back and the entire English pack hit the deck, and they were penalised for collapsing the scrum, so that was harsh!
  
  Then there was England not putting the ball in quick enough as Wales drove them back. The ruck though was something I felt was fine... Moore mentioned Tipuric stealing the ball like McCaw does, something we all say is offside. Um, Walsh did penalise a couple players for coming in at the side, and I definitely remember Warburton getting penalised for hands...
• drg

  2:56 PM 17/03/2013

  Calon perhaps thats why I didn't see a problem; because Mr Moore wasn't yelling into the mic about atrocious decisions... :/ As you said, he'd certainly be loud enough.
• colombes

  2:43 PM 17/03/2013

  Well played Wales.
  It was an enjoyable match to watch and a positive conclusion to a quite dire 6N.
  
  In the 1st half, it was a real tight contest between both sides enjoying runs from every part of the pitch. but slowly but surely, Wales took the advantage at the breakdown and in the scrum.
  i'm quite astonished to read english fans questioning Walsh performance. English were penalised in the scrum because they weren't good at binding and Marler had a nightmare vs Jones... isn't it why lancaster replaced him quickly with vunipola?
  
  Really impressed by the welsh backrow, especially Tipuric who really recalls me Olivier Magne: a mix of speed, nosy and skilled player. Their back monsters also made the difference, particularly Roberts runs.
  
  all is no black for england, but they should stop to think that their all blacks momentum will "inspire" them. each match has its problematic... the english medias jingo certainly echoes didn't help them in the game approach
  guys like Robshaw, Farrell, Woods are becoming true leaders, but lancaster should make evolve their one dimensional attacking strategy. Tuilagi's "no pass" match is the perfect example.
  
  The RWC is still far away, and all can change in 2 years. time will say if this Wales victory was a future sign of domination or a "we hate the english" win.
  
• smashhulk

  2:07 PM 17/03/2013

  I think Brian Moore is a pretty good judge of when Penalties are correct or otherwise in the scrums, and he didn't seem to argue with many of them. Pushing before the ball is in can be 50/50 since the scrum half sometimes buys a free kick by delaying the put-in.
  
  Neither side was penalised for early shove, so there was nothing to stop England trying it. More significant was that Marler was on a hiding from the first scrum, which set the tone.
  
  As for a penalty for side entry prior to the first try? - The ruck wasn't formed because the England support players arrived too late - a problem for them all game.
  
  Walsh penalised Robshaw (who I thought still shone for England) and then Warburton for the same offences in the first half.
  
  More of a problem for England was the 'one out' pass which is designed to take the ball carriers wider, but made it harder for them to retain the ball.
  
  I thought Clive Woodward was right when he felt that had England had the opportunities the Welsh had they would not have taken them.
  
  England weren't bad - they competed well, but execution was the difference.
  
  
• guy

  2:06 PM 17/03/2013

  Statistics count for nothing. I'm talking about intensity, that's definitely higher in matches against England.
• facepalm

  12:46 PM 17/03/2013

  I really don't think there's much whining, nor any typical whining.
• medicaluke

  12:14 PM 17/03/2013

  I want to give full credit to wales before I talk about the refereeing at the scrum and breakdown. They were fantastic and completely out-played england. They were more switched on and played the referee. They noticed the areas that walsh wouldn't referee and the ones that he would and played according to that. The welsh back row completely dominated the English back row. Tipuric is well on his way to being a world class number 7 and I hope that wales play him there more often. This game was won by the forwards.
  
  The scrum has changed a lot since moore played and he isn't up to date with most of the rules. There are occasions when he'll be moaning and it's because a rule has changed or times when he just misses what is going on.
  
  At the scrum, Walsh was penalising England nearly every scrum because England were either 'collapsing it' or 'coming up'. This was not the right decision. He (incorrectly) assumed that because England's pack were inexperienced they were being dominated, but the domination came through cheating. Jenkins wouldn't take the hit and Jones would either bore in (or even just scrum at a massive angle) or lift up. Both of these are illegal and just lead to a collapsed scrum or the front row lifting up. But if you aren't getting caught, why obey the laws?
  
  Something that no referees pick up on either is the early push. I'm all for big hits on the 'set' but then teams start pushing before the ball is in and so scrum halves will delay the put in. Walsh would then penalise Youngs but the scrum wasn't stationary.
  
  Walsh's refereeing of the breakdown was non-existent. Wales were more clued up to this and realised they would not be penalised for things much sooner than England did (eg not through the gate, offside, hands in etc).
  
  I can't shake the feeling that he always tries to make games a spectacle of his refereeing as opposed to the 30 guys on the pitch.
  
  Well done Wales. Played the conditions and referee and dominated.
• 11:41 AM 17/03/2013

  I'm surprised by the amount of comments about Walsh, I'm really not a fan of his refereeing style but genuinely thought he had a good game and that's not because I'm Welsh.
  
  I'm a back so maybe I'm not the most qualified when it comes to refereeing the scrum but he seemed consistent there too.
  
  Brian Moore would have been the first person to complain and he would have complained loud enough and long enough if there was any unfairness there. I could be wrong but from memory I don't remember him picking up on anything during the match.
• facepalm

  11:40 AM 17/03/2013

  oops, didnt even notice :O
• fatprop

  9:28 AM 17/03/2013

  I know he is good but you can't have cuthbert twice
• darabman

  4:48 AM 17/03/2013

  I think if England had put a try in before Wales, the story could have been much different. Sadly when we started to lose the contest at the breakdown, and once the momentum built up for Wales after 50 mins then it was game over.
  We definitely got on the wrong side of Steve Welsh...I mean Walsh...early on, but that being said our scrum was nowhere.
  Wales deserved every inch of that victory, it was a complete performance. I couldn't be more gutted.
• drg

  4:41 AM 17/03/2013

  Have to add that I thought Tipuric was my Welsh MOTM, and Vunipola was my English MOTM he was a man possessed!
• drg

  4:40 AM 17/03/2013

  I'm not Welsh, nor a Welsh supporter, but apparently I'm the only one that felt Walshs' refereeing was pretty good...
  
  He penalised Warburton for hands in the ruck (which Brian Moore picked up on)... he didn't penalise Ashton (?) for use of the boot which looked a bit excessive, but in some ways "old school", which I am fine with..
  
  I thought the game flowed fairly well.
  
  Tipuric didn't deserve a penalty for taking out Goode as someone claimed, I thought there was minimal contact which was milked.
  
  ..to me it just looked like Wales dominated early on, and Englands brilliant defence held, but perhaps the pressure of the attacks was too much, and the tired Englisht team got outclassed in the latter stages of the match by some more experienced Welsh players...
• facepalm

  2:51 AM 17/03/2013

  I would still keep a fair few english lads in there. Despite the loss there are still plenty of bright sparks.
  
  
  1) Jenkins
  2) Best
  3) Jones
  4) Parling
  5) Hamilton
  6) Tipuric
  7) Waburton
  8) Morgan
  
  9) Youngs
  10) Sexton
  11) Cuthbert
  12) Tuilagi
  13) Davies
  14) Hogg
  15) Halfpenny
  
  16) M Vunipola
  17) Hartley
  18) A W Jones
  19) Robshaw
  20) Care
  21) Farrell
  22) Cuthbert
  
• facepalm

  2:48 AM 17/03/2013

  We were just so predictable. Wales out smarted Tuilagi and our back three. I think it goes without saying Ashton's place in the starting line up is gone. Not a single player could offer a go forward. Croft was exposed as the average player he is and our front row was blitzed.
  
  Steve Welsh didn't help, but we can hardly blame such a scoreline on that.
  
  
• guy

  2:39 AM 17/03/2013

  My gut feeling: the Lions tour down under is going to be lost because of this result. A lot of the Welsh boys are going to be selected after today and since they (as a team) only reach this level of intensity against England, the outcome in Australia seems pretty clear.
  
  England definitely not peaking yet. Might be a blessing in disguise for them, this one will hurt for a long time.
  
  This coming from a neutral perspective.
• fatprop

  1:27 AM 17/03/2013

  Why were we so poor. Never got going and walsh just didnt help but to be honest Wales Halfpennyalways win Tuilagi was just battered by Roberts and Davies.
  My lions team used to have lots of English but now nearly none
  1. Healy
  2. Best
  3. Jones
  4. Parling
  5. Ryan
  6. Warburton
  7.Tipuric
  8. Morgan / Robshaw
  
  9.Laidlaw
  10. Sexton
  11. Visser
  12. Roberts
  13. North
  14. Cuthbert
  15. Halfpenny
  
  16. Rees
  17. Corbisiero
  18. Jenkins not sure if he can play TH
  19. Launchbury
  20. Brown / O'Brien
  21. Phillips
  22. Biggar
  23. Hogg
  
  Other players in there O driscoll , T youngs , Croft , Scott , Zebo , Kearney, Farrell , Beattie
• murina

  12:32 AM 17/03/2013

  Nice Lucius. Always interesting to read dumb xenophobia on a rugby site! Idiot.
  
  Anyway, Wales were superb, but I give the credit to their amazing defence which not only prevented scoring by England but ground them down until the tries eventually came. The Welsh front row must be up there in the world at the moment. They deserve the title.
• welshosprey

  12:11 AM 17/03/2013

  Dominated
• lucius

  11:22 PM 16/03/2013

  It's always a pleasure to see England side to loose a game and the nations like they did today