Mon 19 Oct 2015 | 12:41

World Rugby CEO confirms full investigation into Craig Joubert behaviour will take place

32 Comments

• rookvdskyf

  10:08 AM 03/11/2015

  The response from the island dwellers is text book A-typical. Quick to bad mouth others and fundamentally disrespectful towards others when results don't end up in their favor. To me it is a clear case of sour grapes for not having done better in the WC. Craig Joubert is a very good ref and deserves the respect of the rugby fraternity. The fact that the World Rugby management hung one of their own kind out to dry is disgraceful. Funny that did not happen with Bryce Lawrence or Romian Poit. Wonder why? I have no doubt the fact that the WC end games were all about the Southern Hemisphere teams were a determining factor is those island dwellers text book A-typical behavior. Bad losers and clearly evident in their foreign policies.
• oldflyhalf

  8:46 AM 22/10/2015

  See also the game between England and the All Blacks, nov. 2013, refereed by Joubert. Everything was deliberate.
• oldflyhalf

  8:36 AM 22/10/2015

  C. Joubert is an "hardcore recidivist" -its an new waynebarnes- in this matter, on the imputable decisions. Because of these strange decisions, in recent years, his honesty as referee is more than questionable.
• sportbarry

  7:59 AM 22/10/2015

  Look at all this shit being thrown, and outrage shown at Joubert. and then they question why he ran off the pitch. We saw 15 ? Scottish player giving him a send off as he ran on the ground.
  Maybe he was scared at the ugly crowd. Maybe he saw the replay on the big screen that showed he got the decision wrong.
  It's not a question even worth asking.
• sportbarry

  7:55 AM 22/10/2015

  Any can see the pitch was a mess and cutting up. Referees are trained to look for these things. although there is a lot of guess work.
• stroudos

  1:44 PM 21/10/2015

  "I don't agree that referees shouldn't be allowed to hold their hands up and admit where they made an incorrect decision after a game"
  
  Glen Jackson did exactly that a while ago, albeit in a domestic NZ game. In fact, if I remember correctly, he justified his own decision but at the same time acknowledged that the captain (who had complained about it) was entitled to a different interpretation and that another ref might have ruled in his favour.
  
  Lovely bit of transparency, maybe born out of empathy as a bloke who has himself played at elite level. I think he gained a lot of credibility in making that statement. However, I disagree with any suggestion that they should be obliged to come out and defend their decisions.
• stroudos

  1:34 PM 21/10/2015

  Ford and Gray were let off completely on appeal. For me this is absolutely insane. Of all the disciplinary decisions we've seen recently this was undoubtedly one of the most dangerous. They should both have been banned for a lot longer than three weeks.
• katman

  7:54 AM 21/10/2015

  Nonsense. Joubert made a call that, in real time, looked perfectly reasonable and fair. He didn't spot the touch by the Aussie, and neither did the closest touch judge (or else he would have surely intervened). So you're crucifying him on the basis of this decision, but it's the type of call most refs probably would have made. The real reasons for the gripe are that a.) this happened in the last 5 minutes and b.) it's your team that lost.
• gonzoman

  4:00 PM 20/10/2015

  Given that CJ was a lot closer and had better line of sight than the ARs, I don't think consulting them would have done a lick of good - they probably didn't see it either.
  
  Joubert gave a penalty because he didn't see it touch the Aussie, and therefore though it was a penalty.
• larry

  12:05 AM 20/10/2015

  My take is that the collapsed scrum calls that went against Georgia, near to the All Blacks' goal line, in their match against New Zealand were worse. Anyone could see that the All Black front row immediately sunk to their knees practically after the ref's "set" call.
• larry

  12:03 AM 20/10/2015

  It wouldn't be the first time a referee ran off the field and didn't engage any players, WC, Five Nations, or some 3rd side lower division club match.
• larry

  11:58 PM 19/10/2015

  If it's a kick forward and it's caught, and perhaps played and run forward from that point, it's a penalty. No accidental offside. Same under law 11.7 regarding a knock on. There's an out in that the opposition need to have been unable to play the ball; the Scot immediately went to ground and released the ball, and therefore he didn't try to run with the ball up the pitch, which would obviously be a way of preventing the opposition from playing the ball. Would the Scot going to ground and releasing the ball be a way of making the ball available to opposition players nearby? Other than that, did the ball touch an Australian player, at the same time as the Scot player, when the knock-on occurs, which makes a case for an accidental offside and a scrum awarded to Australia? It seems the ball was originally knocked forward by a Scot, and immediately after it seems to have touched an Australian hand. So, who touched the ball first? Who really committed the knock-on infringement, or was it virtually simultaneously touched? Does the Scot up field six or seven meters play it, or prevent Australian players from playing it?
• larry

  11:32 PM 19/10/2015

  It's getting bad in Major League Baseball too. Way too much time to review plays, and it's not done by a fifth umpire on site, but a team of umps sitting in some office in New York, and next year San Francisco as well. Too many umps making decisions from too many camera angles, and too many minutes of fans in the stands and sitting at home waiting for play to resume!
• larry

  11:25 PM 19/10/2015

  I've watched this video a few times, and the ball was knocked forward by a Scot, but also seems to have been touched by an Aussie. That's the part that the ref apparently didn't see. Regarding to rule whether there was an "accidental offside" or not is another part of the puzzle. According to law 11.7, if the player is in an offside position and handles a knock-on from his own team's player, and if in handling the ball it prevented an opposing player from playing the ball, it's a penalty. Here's the problem: was any Australian player not allowed to play the ball? The Scot immediately went to ground and released the ball. Could the Scottish player not have played the ball at all? I guess he could have, but he might have seen that the last player to touch the ball was wearing a yellow jersey, so he then plays it. If that's not the case, he was just doing what comes naturally to any player in that situation: catch and secure the ball. It's a flaw in law 11.7. The Scot didn't catch the ball and continue to run with it forward, and the Aussies weren't really in a position to catch the ball. I think accidental offside should have been the call, and the Aussies get the put in in that situation. Another thing is that Joubert, if he had any doubt whatsoever, could have consulted the touch judge on that side of the pitch and asked if a player in a yellow jersey touched the ball last. Apparently he had no doubt as to what to call, and therefore awarded the penalty.
  Ironically I had a similar situation come up in officiating a women's college match on Saturday, and I awarded a scrum and called accidental offside. On another play I did call a penalty when a ball was fly-hacked forward, and a teammate caught and played the ball and started to run up field.
• eddie-g

  10:38 PM 19/10/2015

  An Australian complaining about quality of refereeing? Pull the other leg, mate.
  
  The people who matter rate him, it's why he got the 2011 WC final and why he's always on at the business end of the Super Rugby competition.
  
  I'm saying he should apologize for running off the field. I don't expect any ref to have to apologize for every marginal call they make that turns out to be wrong.
• bman

  9:59 PM 19/10/2015

  you must be kidding that Jourbert is a good ref? Look at his record for Australian teams in the super 15 and Rugby championship! When we see his name next to our team we know we are going to get the most random and inconsistent decisions possible. He blows us out of the game and this last effort was no different. His rulings on the scrums were so blatantly bias you would almost mistake him for a cheating SA cricket player.
  If you think he owes Scotland an apology, they need to get behind a long list of other teams and wait their turn.
• katman

  8:49 PM 19/10/2015

  They were only in the quarter final because of a "serious error of judgement" in the dying moments of the Samoa game. Clear knock on not called in the Laidlaw try, and also not referred to the TMO. So pipe down.
• drg

  7:36 PM 19/10/2015

  To be honest I think the Scots would be thrilled had the penalty decision not have been given, but instead a scrum platform that Aus won and scored from...
  
  It's all very well to lose a match, but to lose it in that manner must be disappointing.
  
  Joubert has never been a great referee imo, his final actions were strange.
  
  Although, it's been a controversial filled RWC might as well add more to it....
• katman

  7:36 PM 19/10/2015

  Very disappointing. Didn't expect this reaction.
  
  I was gutted when Bryce Lawrence cost SA a place in the semis last time round, but no amount of disappointment warrants this kind of lynch mob.
• katman

  7:32 PM 19/10/2015

  I know you Jocks don't normally wear anything beneath your kilts, but I really think it's time for some big boy pants.
• katman

  7:31 PM 19/10/2015

  Agree. If it hadn't been for one contentious call (which, at full speed looked correct) none of this would have happened. No one would have said a word about the ref.
  
  It's a pity because it's unbecoming. It is the thing you expect from soccer supporters, but rugby is supposed to be better than that. And particularly when you consider that Scotland only made it to the QF courtesy of a late try by Laidlaw against Samoa which seemed to have a clear knock-on when he tried to pick up from the scrum, and which wasn't referred to the TMO. I don't recall the Samoans (who lost) or the Japanese (who missed out on the QF s a result) kicking up such a stink about the ref.
  
  Tell me that's not a knock on at 7 seconds: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MxU_SjPegag
  
  If ever a pot called a kettle black.
• marcusaurelius

  5:32 PM 19/10/2015

  Funny how it's only the posers who ever bitch about the ref, especially in this case.
  
  I always thought Scots were a stoic bunch, who took losing like men. However it seems that they're a bunch of girls, prone to hiss fits when things don't go their way, both players and supporters.
  
  Given the petulance of the players and the aggression showed towards Joubert, I'm not surprised by his actions post game.
  
  As for Hadtings, funny how his attitude changed once he was off the BBC and onto South African feed. Lmfao
• guy

  4:55 PM 19/10/2015

  Actually: it was 1 call and it was the timing of that call. Had he given this penalty 5 minutes into the game, the whole incident would have been forgotten, even if the Scotts lost by 1 point. And the yellow card would have been forgotten if Scotland would have pulled of a win.
  I am not suggesting Joubert had a flawless game, far from it, but this one incident is being pulled out of proportion, Which I can fully understand, since it had a massive influence on the outcome of the match.
• weejockmcplop

  4:50 PM 19/10/2015

  ...Check out Nigel Owens' performances. He may not get all the decisions right and can make a fair few mistakes but he talks to the players, and time after time shows how the TMO can be used to keep the game flowing and the correct decisions being made. You may not always agree with his interpretation of the laws but you cannot argue with the logic that he applies
• eddie-g

  4:50 PM 19/10/2015

  Really disappointing all round. Firstly, Joubert is a good ref. Week in week out, he's one of the best.
  
  Like all other refs, he's had bad games, and made incorrect decisions. I'm sure he feels as bad as anyone for incorrect decisions that had a big impact in big games (this particular call, not reviewable by the TMO, I think was a marginal wrong call, very regrettable that it helped decide a WC quarterfinal).
  
  Running off the field, I'm afraid I don't see what's his excuse. We all know it's a highly charged situation, but this is fricken rugby! Players and officials still show great respect for each other, and I absolutely guarantee: (a) no Scotland player is going to hurt the ref; and (b) had any lunatic gotten past security onto the field, players from both sides would have been the first to protect the officials. Honestly, it was a great missed opportunity to show our sport in a fantastic light. Scottish players would have shaken his hand, and I think it is now incumbent on Joubert to apologize. Just something to ensure he acknowledges his error.
  
  As for the social media tsunami... I remember 2011 and Bryce Lawrence, and I remember 2007 and Wayne Barnes. It pretty much sucks that all and sundry pile on in these situations. None of us are immune, we're all fans and having our hopes quashed is one of the most visceral feelings we experience.
  
  It would be nice is everyone behaved impeccably in the aftermath, but the part of the reason we carefully select rugby leadership is that these people don't join the mob (no such careful vetting happens in the media - is anything, they want the crazies working for them). Quite notably, none of the Scottish players or management have said anything untoward. The kerfuffle will die down quickly enough, and wiser heads will prevail.
  
  No question social media these days makes the hatefest seem more extreme, but to me, that just underlines how important it is that we have the right leadership in the world game.
• weejockmcplop

  4:47 PM 19/10/2015

  Cutting Joubert some slack is fine if this was a one off aberration and he had the decency to show contrition and respect to the players. But sadly neither of these are the case and Brett Gosper's insinuations only make this worse.
  
  Joubert should simply not have been given any significant games after the total mess he made of the 2011world cup final but World Rugby continues to show that it is out of touch with the game and an unbelievable arrogance in the way that it treats some teams.
• bman

  4:36 PM 19/10/2015

  It is not just one decision in one game with Joubert... Every game he is in charge of he makes error after error. Now I'm ok with a ref making a mistake or two, but the ref needs to be consistent in his rulings. The only consistency he shows is that of incompetence.
• guy

  4:22 PM 19/10/2015

  I am not sure if anything good would have come from it, had he stayed on the pitch.
  
  And it actually saddens me to see the amount of crap that's being thrown at Joubert. This is rapidly changing into a wendyballish situation. Even after a lengthy study of the Law there are different interpretations and outcomes for this scenario so I guess we should cut the guy some slack.
• weejockmcplop

  4:16 PM 19/10/2015

  This has soured the world cup which coupled with the nonsense over the citing of Ross Ford and Johnny Gray has left the Scots feeling extremely harshly done.
  
  Thee are no circumstances that excuse Joubert for running off the field and not waiting for his colleagues to leave the field. That is the protocol and that is the standard to which rugby holds itself. It is disgusting and pathetic of Brett Gosper to imply that Joubert felt intimidated by the players or the crowd. The SRU and all of the players on the filed, Wallabies included, deserve an apology for the pathetic performance. It is terribly sad that we are spending more time talking about the referee's performance than that of the players who delivered a great match with passion and commitment and no less skill.
• bman

  4:03 PM 19/10/2015

  That's the law.
• katman

  3:42 PM 19/10/2015

  Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't the first incident involve a kick into a Scottish player (Nel?) which then went forward after which another Scotsman handled it? Nel wasn't trying to play the ball - he just got clobbered by it. Hence the "accidental" part.
  
  In the second incident, the Scottish player was trying to play the ball and knocked it forward, after which another Scotsman played it. Hence not accidental.
  
  Just my speculation - I may be wrong here.
• bman

  3:08 PM 19/10/2015

  Joubert has been a horribly inconsistent ref since the day he started blowing his whistle. Don't blame the TMO or Lack of TMO, Blame yourselves for selecting this clown to ref any game.
  
  If you add more stoppages to the game we might as well start watching NFL. TMO should only be allowed for try scoring questions and potential foul play.